Official Ruling with Cleric Subdomains

[Brikon 'Brik' Wahl]

Hey all,

This might be a very easy question to answer, but I wanted to get the Strength Subdomains of Ferocity and Resolve for my Fighter/Cleric later down the line, but at closer inspection they both replace a 6th level spell.

I've looked high and low but there don't appear to be any rules saying you can't take both and there's no ruling in regards to Subdomains sharing the same level replacement spells.

So, can I with this Pathfinder Society character take both the Ferocity and Resolve Subdomains, choosing which 6th level spell to replace between the two? Hero's Feast and Mass Bull's Strength are the two and I'd go with the Bull's Strength as he doubles as up front Fighter and Support.

I'm honestly just looking for the official ruling on this, because there is nothing to say you can or cannot do it, so I guess this is more a question for the Paizo team as I need my character to be 100% legal.

[Rysky]

1) Never bother to ask for "official ruling" or try to keep other posters out in hopes of a Designer giving an official response, because it won't happen. The best you can do is get it FAQed.

2) the fact that the Subdomains both replace the same thing should tell you something. If you replace it with one thing, it is gone and can't be replaced a second time because it is not there. Same working logic with Archetypes.

This is back up by the foreword on Subdomains in the APG where they were introduced.

SUBDOMAINS wrote:

Presented in the section below are new rules for subdomains—more specific focuses for clerical worship and power that allow players greater flexibility in customizing their characters. Every domain has a number of subdomains associated with it (see Table 2–11 for a complete list). Each subdomain replaces a granted power and a number of spells in the domain’s granted spell list. Spells marked with an asterisk (*) are detailed in Chapter 5 of this book. A cleric who chooses a subdomain must have access to both the domain and its subdomain from her deity (see Table 2–12). If a cleric selects a subdomain, she cannot select its associated domain as her other domain choice (in effect, the subdomain replaces its associated domain). Subdomains are treated as equivalent to their associated domain for any effect or prerequisite based on domains. If a subdomain has two associated domains, the cleric can only select the subdomain for one of her domains. Subdomains can be selected by druids (except the metal subdomain) and inquisitors (if their deity allows it).
If a subdomain ability calls for a saving throw, the DC of the save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the character’s cleric level + her Wisdom modifier.

[Brikon 'Brik' Wahl]

I saw that, but it doesn't mention spells. It just means you can't choose the vanilla Strength domain in addition to a Subdomain of Strength, where as I see related Subdomains to be intended to fully replace both powers of the vanilla domain. This is the issue.

As for your first point, I wasn't locking anyone out. I just wanted official ruling (no matter who gives it), but felt it was "more" for the Paizo team as I stated above.

And yes, it did tell me something. It told me to ask on here because there was nothing official about how it worked. Usually everything is covered with regards to ruling. It'll say "this cannot be taken the same time as x" or "if two Subdomains replace the same level spell, you may only choose one of them", but there's no such wording here. It all bounces back to the whole "you cannot have the vanilla domain and the subdomain" thing.

This is the problem. There is nothing here to officially state what I can or cannot do with my PFS legal character in regards to this, which is exactly why I need to find official ruling from somewhere.

Not only that, it'll help anyone else with the same question for future reference.

[_Ozy_]

This should give the answer:

Quote:

. If a cleric selects a subdomain, she cannot select its associated domain as her other domain choice (in effect, the subdomain replaces its associated domain).

If the subdomain replaces its associated domain (Say Ferocity->Strength), it effectively 'becomes' the associated domain. Therefore, if you select the other subdomain, it also replaces the 'associated' domain (Resolve->Strength).

So, it's the equivalent of picking Strength for both of your domain choices, which you can't do. Or, at the very least, you would select Ferocity, which replaces the baseline Strength domain, then you would select Resolve, which would replace Ferocity as the baseline Strength domain.

[Sammy T]

Quote:

If a cleric selects a subdomain, she cannot select its associated domain as her other domain choice (in effect, the subdomain replaces its associated domain)

Domains wrote:

A cleric chooses two domains from among those belonging to her deity.

Once you pick a subdomain, it counts as that domain. You must pick two different domains, so you can't choose two subdomains from the same domain as they basically count as the same domain.

[Shivok]

Brikon,

Thanks for asking this question. We hope you have enjoyed PFS and continue to play Pathfinder.

As to your question, unfortunately you cannot choose both strength subdomains. The posters above are correct.

There are however other options that may help your cleric as well. I recommend you look into them.

If you are not comfortable with the advice given above, contact your local Venture-Officer and he will provide guidance.

June Soler
Northeast RVC

[Glorf Fei-Hung]

I'd like to also verify that what Shivok said, in verification of what Sammy T said in verification of what _Ozy_ said in verification of what Rysky said, is also correct!

In short, there is no rule saying you can't use two subdomains to replace the same domain spell, because there's a rule that prevents you from using the subdomain and the normal domain, and how that rule is applied also prevents the possibility of using 2 subdomains of the same normal domain.

[Brikon 'Brik' Wahl]

That's a shame, but not the end of the world. It just would have been nice to have the ability of Resolve.

Thanks for the feedback all. :)