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For PFS, so Unchained Summoner Exclusively.
Hopefully simiple question, Any reason that a Summoner wearing lots of armor would be prevented or impaired while preforming the ritual to summon their own eidolon?
If wondering, I'm tinkering with a build that uses the Artillery Team feat, so I'd need a second person, like the eidolon, to both have the feat and to give up actions to feed into a giant crossbow character. As far as I can tell, a bipedal eidolon with the simple weapon evolution should qualify for the feat.
So I'm thinking 1 level dip into summon, then the rest in some ranged class (haven't decided). Obviously, going this route would mean the eidolon wouldn't progress, but I'm mostly trying to figure out if this is legal, before fleshing out the full concept. Sounds really cool, the build, and it would be fun to model (I'm way into making the model for my character).
Artillery Team feat details found here.
The only problem that medium or heavy armor causes for a summoner is that it creates a chance of arcane spell failure. Supernatural and spell-like abilities are not subject to arcane spell failure -- and those abilities include the ritual to summon your eidolon. But you do run the risk of failure when attempting to cast your actual spells with somatic components, few though they are.
The main flaw I see in this scheme is that your eidolon would only have 5 hit points and thus could be obliterated far too easily at higher levels.
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Awesome, thanks.
The main flaw I see in this scheme is that your eidolon would only have 5 hit points and thus could be obliterated far too easily at higher levels.
And I totally get this. Yeah, eidolon would be very weak and easily dispatched. So the idea would be to have a character that is focused on using other weapons, and is just bolstered by using the eidolon (and the oversized crossbow) circumstancially.
Oh, big question. Eidolon weapons, does the Summoner have to store them, and then hand them to the eidolon as like a move action after summoning them, or can they be summoned with the eidolon? Since the proficency is a evolution, seems somewhat reasonable that they'd be summoned with the eidolon. Mostly, it matters for weight and actions to equip.
Again, asking for PFS purposes.
Outside of PFS, there is table variation on that issue. Within PFS, I am pretty sure that the general ruling is that everything carried by an eidolon falls off when it is banished or dismissed.
They are supposed to take with them all equipment that they had when they were summoned. All of an eidolon's equipment was at some point given to it by its summoner after it was summoned. In the absence of a way to bind the equipment to the summoner, that equipment is treated like any other equipment that a summoned creature happens to pick up while summoned and thus is left behind when the summoned creature goes away.
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They are supposed to take with them all equipment that they had when they were summoned. All of an eidolon's equipment was at some point given to it by its summoner after it was summoned. In the absence of a way to bind the equipment to the summoner, that equipment is treated like any other equipment that a summoned creature happens to pick up while summoned and thus is left behind when the summoned creature goes away.
Hmm...seems iffy. I mean, if they can take an evolution to use simple and martial weapons, does seem weird that you'd have to then burn additional actions to acquire the weapons. Maybe I'll check the PFS forums for a more offical answer.
I can certainly respect the idea that the summoner can't use the eidolon to store equipment, and since the eidolon can't actually wield the Large Crossbow via Artillery Team, it would be effectively storage. So for this question, I can certainly accept that the eidolon can't hold the oversized crossbow in "storage."
I located a post by James Jacobs where he said that an eidolon can keep its stuff when banished or dismissed. I also saw an anecdotal post from a PFS player who said that he knew of no PFS GM who required such an eidolon to drop everything under such circumstances. Another poster mentioned the ruling that I originally assumed to be correct but did not link to any official statement. The only definite ruling I could find to the contrary was in regard to a Spritualist's Phantom, not a Summoner's Eidolon.
So I think my memory may have been faulty on this one (unless somebody can locate a definitive official ruling on this one).
Still -- The summoner definitely needs to provide all gear to his eidolon. Making the eidolon proficient with a weapon via a feat or evolution does not cause the weapon in question to magically appear from nowhere. In any case, you would eventually want to replace the initial weapon with an enchanted weapon of ever increasing enchantment.
All I can say regarding eidolons keeping their equipment is, expect table variation.
Most GM's won't care, but there is always that one person that dislikes summoners.
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So on topic, is the weapon training evolution REQUIRED for an Eidolon to use weapons? Or is it just a bonus feat paid for with evolution points?
Can the eidolon use improvised or weapons they lack proficency in? If they take an exotic weapon proficiency via a feat, can they use the exotic weapon?
The part I'm stuck on is the nature of calling it an "evolution". Are all eidolons able to wield weapons, and just ones with the feats able to use them without penalty, or is the eidolon evolving to include the weapon?
If the eidolon is actually evolving to include the weapon, does seem reasonable for it to summon with their weapons. If the "evolution" is just reducing penalties, then I guess it does seem reasonable that they wouldn't summon with weapons if normal eidolons can't summon with their gear.
Weapon Training (Ex): An eidolon learns to use a weapon, gaining Simple Weapon Proficiency as a bonus feat. If 2 additional evolution points are spent, it gains proficiency with all martial weapons as well.
If you want your eidolon to use a weapon, burn a feat on exotic weapon proficiency and get a top tier weapon.
If you want your eidolon to use a weapon, burn a feat on exotic weapon proficiency and get a top tier weapon.i know they are suposta be top teir weapons but unless your dm makes custom exotic weapons theres only like 4-5 exotic weapons that are better than martial weapons the rest are lower quality than martial weapons
And, if your burning the feat to get any weapon, you might as well choose one of those 4-5 weapons that are marginally better than a martial weapon, but not usually worth spending a feat on.
those ones are usually weapons for neiche builds that it will likely be dificult for the edolon to emulate i know 2 out of the list will be knocked out imediatly as the way to make them good requires 3 levels in unchained rogue, then theres the bastard sword, the estoc which the feat is only really needed if wanting to use 1 handed and if wanting to use 2 handed your better off with a greatsword and then theres the falceta which is worth it as its the only 19-20x3 weapon all the rest are garbage and get out preformed by martial weaponsAnd, if your burning the feat to get any weapon, you might as well choose one of those 4-5 weapons that are marginally better than a martial weapon, but not usually worth spending a feat on.If you want your eidolon to use a weapon, burn a feat on exotic weapon proficiency and get a top tier weapon.i know they are suposta be top teir weapons but unless your dm makes custom exotic weapons theres only like 4-5 exotic weapons that are better than martial weapons the rest are lower quality than martial weapons
Fauchard for reach builds.
Falceta for maximum DPRKatana for sword & board
Nodachi, though it is a martial weapon, not exotic.
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all the rest are garbage and get out preformed by martial weapons
Well, honestly, the concept of the exotic weapons isn't that they are supposed to be better than the martial ones. They are just weirder, and otherwise less common. The Martial weapons are the weapons that martial classes should know how to use. And the simple weapons are the ones that most characters should be able to use.
I will note that Firearms are an Exotic weapon. Eidolons should be able to use firearms. Futhermore, they wouldn't need to purchase gunsmithing (the summoner needs it, but the eidolon doesn't).
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yes but they should be better than martial weapons cuz you have to spend a feat to be able to use them each exotic weapon should be one step better than a martial weapon, take the falcheta for instance its a 1d8 19-20x3 weapon which is one step better than a longsword, every other exotic weapon should be that way either improving crit multiplyer, crit threat range or damage die by one step because you are spending a feat on being able to use the weapon
Only for classes with proficiency in 'all' martial weapons. The actual martial weapon proficency feat only grants a single weapon for each time you select the feat. The Simple weapon Proficency is the feat that grants multiple weapon proficencies, and simple weapons are certainly a step down from martial or exotic weapons.
Anyway, I do agree that many of the exotic weapons are lacking. Not all of it is related to the weapon itself, but due to other game mechanic related issues (like when an exotic lists a break DC in the description, so that DC doesn't change regardless of special materials, magical enchancements or size.). That mancatcher, in example, could really use some revisiting to make it do what it's supposed to be able to do.