I'm looking for ideas on making the Fireball feel more like a real explosion. Currently the spell is written that it is basically a puff of fire with no force behind it. For me and my group that definition does not work at all as we see it as the magical equivalent of tossing in a hand grenade, or firing a rocket launcher or mortar round into your enemies. This should not only blow them to pieces but also have additional effects such as knock down, etc.
One idea we had was the damage was 1/2 fire and 1/2 concussive force (sound) and added a bull rush effect moving outward from the center of the blast.
Any suggestions?
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3.5's Explosive Spell metamagic feat might be a good place to start.
Explosive runes written on an arrow.
If you don't think that's going to work then use martial version spell-like ability of suggestion
"Idiots! I bet you can't even read what's on that arrow!"
One idea we had was the damage was 1/2 fire and 1/2 concussive force (sound) and added a bull rush effect moving outward from the center of the blast.
If you want the equivalent of a real explosion splitting the damage between fire and sound would be the way to go. A knock back effect is much less fitting unless you're going for a Hollywood type explosion, or an insane overkill explosion.
Quantifying how deadly an explosive is can be very difficult. If your standard is a fragmentation grenade exploding on the ground in the open the heat and pressure waves have negligible immediate effect, it's the shrapnel created by the grenade fragmenting that is dangerous in this can. You might want to get your hearing checked and checked for a concussion, but if you have a way to avoid the shrapnel the grenade isn't all that dangerous in this scenario.
In contrast, you can safely say that all grenades are very deadly in confined spaces. There are as many reasons for this as there are kinds of grenades, but in the case of a fragmentation grenade the concussive pressure has no place to escape so it is reflected back into confined space producing far greater and much more deadly pressures.
Long story short, it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish as to how to do this. I will say it sounds like you're interested in something beyond to scope of a level 3 spell.
Why don't you use your descriptions to make the fireball more devastating. Explain the force and heat from the explosion. Describe small objects being ejected from the force of the explosion.
One idea we had was the damage was 1/2 fire and 1/2 concussive force (sound) and added a bull rush effect moving outward from the center of the blast.If you want the equivalent of a real explosion splitting the damage between fire and sound would be the way to go. A knock back effect is much less fitting unless you're going for a Hollywood type explosion, or an insane overkill explosion.
Quantifying how deadly an explosive is can be very difficult. If your standard is a fragmentation grenade exploding on the ground in the open the heat and pressure waves have negligible immediate effect, it's the shrapnel created by the grenade fragmenting that is dangerous in this can. You might want to get your hearing checked and checked for a concussion, but if you have a way to avoid the shrapnel the grenade isn't all that dangerous in this scenario.
In contrast, you can safely say that all grenades are very deadly in confined spaces. There are as many reasons for this as there are kinds of grenades, but in the case of a fragmentation grenade the concussive pressure has no place to escape so it is reflected back into confined space producing far greater and much more deadly pressures.
Long story short, it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish as to how to do this. I will say it sounds like you're interested in something beyond to scope of a level 3 spell.
Well it's not like grenades don't exist in this game. They just deal 5d6 B/P damage in a 20 ft. radius. Hardly beyond the scope of even a second level spell.
Back in 3.0, I had a wizard (evoker) PC who researched a custom spell: fiery meteror (sor/wiz 4). It shot a baseball-sized flaming meteor at a target, which then exploded upon impact. Ranged touch attack against a target in range. If the fiery meteor struck the target, it dealt 2d6 bludgeoning damage (no save), and then exploded as a fireball for 1d6 fire damge per caster level (max 10d6). A target struck by the meteor had a -2 penalty on the Reflex save vs. the fire damage.
Add a bull rush away from center point effect on everything within its radius with a CMB = to its save DC
Why don't you use your descriptions to make the fireball more devastating. Explain the force and heat from the explosion. Describe small objects being ejected from the force of the explosion.
Oh yeah, already doing this one.
One idea we had was the damage was 1/2 fire and 1/2 concussive force (sound) and added a bull rush effect moving outward from the center of the blast.If you want the equivalent of a real explosion splitting the damage between fire and sound would be the way to go. A knock back effect is much less fitting unless you're going for a Hollywood type explosion, or an insane overkill explosion.
As this will become the generic standard for similar types of explosions in the campaign, the "Hollywood type explosion" effect is probably not terribly far off honestly.
Quantifying how deadly an explosive is can be very difficult. If your standard is a fragmentation grenade exploding on the ground in the open the heat and pressure waves have negligible immediate effect, it's the shrapnel created by the grenade fragmenting that is dangerous in this can. You might want to get your hearing checked and checked for a concussion, but if you have a way to avoid the shrapnel the grenade isn't all that dangerous in this scenario.
True, although I like the deafening effect and might have to consider that one.
Long story short, it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish as to how to do this. I will say it sounds like you're interested in something beyond to scope of a level 3 spell.
My troupe felt the Fireball was underwhelming at the moment and are looking for a way to bring back the feeling that it is in fact a dangerous explosion. NOTE: Our game has already adopted several variant rules for both magic and combat so this is on par with the direction we are going any way.
Thank you for your feed back on real world explosions!
Add a bull rush away from center point effect on everything within its radius with a CMB = to its save DC
Good idea, similar to where I was going with this.
3.5's Explosive Spell metamagic feat might be a good place to start.
I just read over this description and loved it! Definitely being looked at heavily for our campaign as a default effect for certainly spells (fireball, etc).
Add a bull rush away from center point effect on everything within its radius with a CMB = to its save DCGood idea, similar to where I was going with this.
That said id consider bumping it up a spell level or two, thats got the potential for serious utility.
Agreed, however that is the sort of utility we felt should have always been there. Bare in mind our idea was that the fireball spell is an explosion, and represents dangerous magic not unlike a lit stick of dynamite, a hand grenade or getting hit by a mortar round.
It is also worth mentioning that both the campaign features a spell level cap, and an character level cap, similar in some ways to E6.