Applying the advanced template: what to do about dashes for scores? Undead, constructs, etc?

[aboyd]

Since some creatures have a - for the ability score (such as a construct having no constitution score), what happens when you apply the Advanced template, which boosts all ability scores by 4?

I think I know, but I'm hoping for official answers or very well-reasoned answers.

(I think I know because the retriever is a construct with eye ray beams that are "Constitution based" -- powers that are tied to an ability score are intended to increase as the ability score is pumped up (such as saving throw DCs increasing), and so I feel that the authors of the game at least intended for the eye ray beams to increase in power as the Con score increased, which implies that even with a dash for Con it is affected by the Advanced template. However, I defer to official rulings, if anyone knows of such a thing.)

[dragonhunterq]

Any stat with a '-' does not exist, so will not increase when you apply a template that would normally improve that stat.

Any non-existent score is treated as '10' for abilities keying off of that stat. It is reasonable to assume the writers knew that and that they were 'locking in' the DC from any ability score increases.

Because the DC of the retrievers eye rays will not increase as it remains explicitly con based. Unusual as they often change that to another 'active' stat, usually charisma.

[Bill Dunn]

The answer is right in the advanced template quick rules - all of the creature's rolls and special ability DCs are increased by +2. The rebuild rules are there to provide a more thorough reconstruction so you can see how the changes work in full, but the end result is actually the same.

[wraithstrike]

The quick rules dont account for corner cases such as not having a score. That +2 to the DC assumes the ability score also increased.
The DC will not increase, and neither will the "-" ability score that is attached to that DC.

[aboyd]

So it appears that this is a situation where the rebuild rules will cause the creature to not advance as much, but the "quick" rules flatly increase DCs & HP without adjusting ability scores, so the quick template is more deadly.

So I guess as a GM I have to decide if I want to apply the quick rules and just add +2 to everything (a significant boost) or use the rebuild rules and lose out on anything Con-based.

Thanks!

[Edward the Kobold]

Bill Dunn wrote:

The answer is right in the advanced template quick rules.

Unfortunately, that is not where the answer is located. Quick rules and rebuild rules do not always produce identical results; the section on monster advancement says as much here.

I can't find a Paizo-published reference for how nonabilities are handled, though. Clearly they (and we) are following the old 3.0/3.5 rules for them (dragonhunterq lays out those rules very clearly), but does anyone know of a place where this is explicitly stated for Pathfinder?