|
Hello everyone,
I'v been curious about several social "problems" (they aren't exactly problems per se, but more of a social pattern) which seems to be ongoing in every game that I play and I am searching for a way to go behind it, solve it, well, you name it.
The "problem" is simply put, bad player ideas, but in a longer version, around 50-75% of players that I have met seem to use bad logic, bad common sense, bad interpretation of NPC social behavior (what NPC might or might not do in a certain situation) which in turn forms bad ideas and plans. These ideas and plans typically get discouraged by me (as player or GM) or GM currently leading the game. This "bad idea behavior" then gets repeated, and repeated, and repeated, and... Well you get the idea. It seems almost that some people are dummies and lack imagination, but then again I have prolonged experience with gaming systems.
So how to solve or reduce this problem? Because I am seeing it in my own private homebrew games (as a GM) and as a player in a second game which isn't Pathfinder anymore, but with same social patterns. They are literally a time drain and half of session is lost on them.
Is it player's fault here or GM's? How to reduce or remove the problem?
The only way of solving this problem so far has been for me as a GM to pre-plan potential tactics and quest ideas upfront and insert them into the game for players to use, but I am slightly burnt out perhaps from GMing in general as I have little will to plan these things anymore. I also try to sometimes working with those "bad ideas", but in most cases, they are failure.
I know that a topic might a bit messy question overall, but I think that it's somewhat clear what I am asking here.
Thanks for responses upfront,
Adam
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I usually tend to assume that when players make really crazy plans(and not crazy in "hilarious" but in "Wait how is that good idea?") that I forgot to say something and then clarify what is going on. And sometimes I end up discussing with player the plan they are planning because I'm not understanding it myself how it is supposed to go.
Either of those has usually resulted in plans being changed to more reasonable .-.
But then again, its really player specific thing. Like my parties tend to be type of player who avoid killing enemies they think are good interrogation targets instead of killing them and hoping they just happened to have memo that tells what is going on in their pocket :'D Never seen them doing coup de grace either. From few times I played in English speaking games, I've seen trends of people having really outrageous plans which aren't about it actually working but it being cool. So might be just player culture thing?
(my experience as player is different though since my gms have been type to let us do whatever crazy thing we end up planning and then playing the results :'D Also, I often end up playing in groups where one of other pcs seems to be "secretly" CE. Like, my in my first campaign ever in Deadlands campaign, there was player who said they were sadist playing a character who is sadist who was trying to lit a farm on fire just because. In another (D&D) campaign there was character whose assumption to situation is "let's kill them before they have chance to hurt us" and in another there has been really blood thirsty character who seems to want to kill everyone who might have a loot even though rest of the party is against idea of attacking what appears to be high level wizard :D)
|
|
@CorvusMask
I tend to remind players of certain potential problems that they haven't resolved yet, often several times before they come up with a plan. I usually can't remain completely neutral in these discussions mostly because they stretch for long time and test my nerves sometimes. Perhaps I should just stay silent completely? Hm.
@Pan
Well, lack of interest or too much interest, stubbornness or passive attitude, non-teamwork or teamwork attitude, you can all kind of wrap up in a player's gaming style I guess and is probably part of the truth, but this "problem" seems more intellectual to me.
Let's say that it is a matter of play style difference. How would you attempt to solve it considering a fact that a problem isn't big, but is sufficient enough to disrupt a game?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
There are probably quite a few issues at work here. In some cases, a bad idea comes from a bad impression of what's going on in the GM's brain. Miscommunication in RPGs is pretty common - if the players get a very different impression of what's going on compared to what's in the GM's head, you're going to see a lot of things come up that are really bad ideas.
But even if there is good agreement between what the GM thinks he's communicating and what the players are receiving, players may just want to try doing something fun - whether it's rationally a good idea or not. That's part of the point of RPGs - getting to do things that don't make sense in our real world (or at least would come with potentially crippling and life-destroying consequences).
And then there are some players who just don't get it. It may be they don't understand the style of the game or its genre conventions or something else. They are the ones who probably don't understand that their ideas are bad - like why a superhero packing a pistol is fairly pointless when her mystic blast power is going to be more effective almost all the time. Those are the ones you need to really educate and, if they continue to not get it, are probably never going to fit playing certain kinds of games.
This "bad idea behavior" then gets repeated, and repeated, and repeated, and...
Can you give some examples? The only good thing about role-playing with idiots is that you sometimes get funny stories out of it.
|
Well if the players are just simply dumb, I guess I'd adjust my expectations of the game. A lot of folks will attempt behavior change through game tactics/mechanics, but I have never felt that was a good way to deal with player behavior; YMMV. I'd put minimal effort into your games until you can find a pool of likeminded gamers and then focus on making that game as good as possible.
|
|
@Bill Dunn
I am all for doing something fun, but it's generally hard to work with an improper tool as well as with improper idea. It's not that I don't want these ideas to work, it's more like they are unfinished. They aren't a true plan overall.
I can't say that I have met those kinds of players that you mention, but I did meet the ones who refuse to learn the game rules properly. I mean, how hard can it be to know when to roll d20 and when not?
@Matthew Downie
I wouldn't call my players or GMs idiots. They are all good people really, but have their own issues like everyone. But here is few recent silly examples from my players. Again, they aren't idiots, their ideas were partially good, but unfinished and ill suited for the occasion.
They are currently on a generally simple quest to eliminate several corrupted elemental monsters in the nearby polluted lake. The druid would after threat's elimination cleanse the lake. They explored and knew every monster's weakness, had the geography of the terrain, but couldn't come up with any logical tactical plan in how to set an ambush.
P1: "I know! Let's buy bunch of oil and soak the ground with it!"
Me (as GM): "Uh. Alright, but that's a lot of oil you are gonna need. How do you except to lead them on these burning traps?"
P1: "We'll just kite them."
Me: "They aren't mindless mobs dude. I somehow suspect that druid wouldn't approve burning entire forest also."
P1: "We can contain a few flames. How hard can it be?"
Me: "..."
P2: "I know what we are going to do!"
Me: "Awesome. Let's hear it. You had a week to plan it out."
P2: "Bear traps!"
Me: "Bear traps?"
P2: "Bear traps! They are cheap and can deal 2d6+3 dmg on hit!"
Me: "Alright. But you do remember that elementals can teleport near you?"
P2: "Ah, right. Well if they trigger at least one, it's worth it."
Me: "Anyone else with anything better?"
They kinda went with the bear trap plan at end because nobody could figure out anything better then that. Turns out that all the oil they bought didn't serve any purpose at all besides lightning the arrows with it.
@Pan
This is a pool of most likely minded gamers that I can find and I have met a lot of gamers. I even introduced a Luck Point rule which allows them to quite literally write the game story, but in a small way. I introduced it in order to improve the chance of success for their ideas and plans.