School evocation [fire, light]; Level bard 3, druid 2, ranger 2, sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (ash made from burnt thorns)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect 20-ft.-radius sphere centered on fire source
Duration 2 hours/level; see below (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
You can create a barrier around a fire of at least campfire size that shelters everyone inside so long as the fire continues to burn. The barrier appears as a crackling sphere of light and fire that is clearly visible, providing as much illumination as a torch. The barrier bocks line of sight, granting creatures on either side of the barrier total concealment from creatures on the other side. Any object or creature passing through the barrier from outside takes 1d6 points of fire damage and is also outlined with light equivalent to that of a torch, for 1d6 minutes. Creatures outlined in this way are plainly visible regardless of the light conditions and do not benefit from any sort of concealment, magical or otherwise. The light is not bright enough to have any special effect on undead or creatures vulnerable to light. Creatures inside the barrier can leave without penalty, but if they try to return they suffer the same consequences as anyone else. If the fire source at the barrier's center is extinguished or moved, the spell ends.
Also wondering if anyone would/has used it as a combat spell with a dazing wand, or to protect against concealed enemies' sneak attacks.
It's a sphere, and blocks line of sight, so I'd expect the area inside the sphere to be unaffected by Deeper Darkness cast outside it, since that radiates darkness and goes away if the object it's cast on is covered.
If someone pushed through the fire and then cast Deeper Darkness, I think they'd still be visible (but nothing else would), since all that does is lower the light level, and Campfire Wall specifically says they're 'plainly visible regardless of light conditions and do not benefit from any sort of concealment, magical or otherwise'.
Foeclan wrote: It's a sphere, and blocks line of sight, so I'd expect the area inside the sphere to be unaffected by Deeper Darkness cast outside it, since that radiates darkness and goes away if the object it's cast on is covered.
If someone pushed through the fire and then cast Deeper Darkness, I think they'd still be visible (but nothing else would), since all that does is lower the light level, and Campfire Wall specifically says they're 'plainly visible regardless of light conditions and do not benefit from any sort of concealment, magical or otherwise'.
1. Line of sight =/= line of effect. Emanations are only blocked by total cover from the point of origin. Emanations explicitly affect creatures that cannot be seen.
2. Campfire Wall is a light spell and lacks specific rules changing interaction with other light/dark spells.
As a third level bard/druid/wizard spell, Campfire Wall will suppress and be suppressed by Deeper Darkness in areas where the two spells overlap.
As a second level ranger spell, Deeper Darkness will suppress the Campfire Wall.
Snowlilly wrote:
2. Campfire Wall is a light spell and lacks specific rules changing interaction with other light/dark spells.
Ok, so deeper darkness would make it 2 levels darker even in the sphere, granting all creatures total concealment. But wouldn't the creatures that move through the barrier with total concealment STILL be seen, as the spell specifically says they " do not benefit from any sort of concealment"? The spell seems to do more than affect the light level and while that portion of it would be suppressed....wouldn't the other specifics of the spell still work?
I agree if it is used to counter or dispel it would do so. I am specifically talking if they simply overlap.
Meager Rolmug wrote: Snowlilly wrote:
2. Campfire Wall is a light spell and lacks specific rules changing interaction with other light/dark spells.
Ok, so deeper darkness would make it 2 levels darker even in the sphere, granting all creatures total concealment. But wouldn't the creatures that move through the barrier with total concealment STILL be seen, as the spell specifically says they " do not benefit from any sort of concealment"? The spell seems to do more than affect the light level and while that portion of it would be suppressed....wouldn't the other specifics of the spell still work?
I agree if it is used to counter or dispel it would do so. I am specifically talking if they simply overlap. Light/Dark Blog
Quote: 5. Pierce the Darkness
Now that we have those out of the way, let's assume the more typical case where someone cast a darkness spell on one object, somebody else cast a light spell on another object, and the areas overlap. We're still not dealing with daylight yet. Based on the rules of light and darkness, here's how to adjudicate this situation within the overlap:
First, the darkness spell turns off nonmagical light sources and lowers the ambient light level. If there are multiple darkness spells, figure out the highest spell level (not caster level!)
Next, the light spells attempt to shine through. For every light spell, check to see if it has a higher spell level (not caster level!) than the highest spell level of any of the darkness spells. If so, that light spell has its normal effect, as per the spell. Do not reduce its light level again for the darkness spell; that already happened. This is true in all overlapping areas, as per the May 2013 FAQ, whether the light spell's source object is within the area of darkness or not.
With the exception of rangers, Campfire Wall and Deeper Darkness are the same level, but Deeper Darkness shifts light by two steps where Campfire Wall provides only dim light.
Snowlilly wrote: Meager Rolmug wrote: Snowlilly wrote:
2. Campfire Wall is a light spell and lacks specific rules changing interaction with other light/dark spells.
Ok, so deeper darkness would make it 2 levels darker even in the sphere, granting all creatures total concealment. But wouldn't the creatures that move through the barrier with total concealment STILL be seen, as the spell specifically says they " do not benefit from any sort of concealment"? The spell seems to do more than affect the light level and while that portion of it would be suppressed....wouldn't the other specifics of the spell still work?
I agree if it is used to counter or dispel it would do so. I am specifically talking if they simply overlap. Light/Dark Blog
Quote: 5. Pierce the Darkness
Now that we have those out of the way, let's assume the more typical case where someone cast a darkness spell on one object, somebody else cast a light spell on another object, and the areas overlap. We're still not dealing with daylight yet. Based on the rules of light and darkness, here's how to adjudicate this situation within the overlap:
First, the darkness spell turns off nonmagical light sources and lowers the ambient light level. If there are multiple darkness spells, figure out the highest spell level (not caster level!)
Next, the light spells attempt to shine through. For every light spell, check to see if it has a higher spell level (not caster level!) than the highest spell level of any of the darkness spells. If so, that light spell has its normal effect, as per the spell. Do not reduce its light level again for the darkness spell; that already happened. This is true in all overlapping areas, as per the May 2013 FAQ, whether the light spell's source object is within the area of darkness or not.
With the exception of rangers, Campfire Wall and Deeper Darkness are the same level, but... OK, after rereading the light and dark rules and the spells(darkness, deeper darkness and campfire wall), my conclusion is, since the outlining of the creatures is in light it would also be suppressed by deeper darkness.
Note: for all my questions above I was referring to campfire wall being cast as a 3rd level spell.
So campfire wall would act 100% normally overlapping an area where regular old darkness was cast. And all its light affects(including outlining creatures) would be void in the area affected by deeper darkness.
But what happens to creatures passing through in the area affected by deeper darkness? Is the barrier still there? Would it do the 1d6 fire damage? Would these creatures be outlined once they left the area of deeper darkness?
On more examination, I agree with Snowlilly's interpretation. I considered the blog post, but they were pretty explicit about it negating magical darkness, so I figured it was similar to Faerie Fire. Had I actually _read_ Faerie Fire, I would've noticed that it, too, is overridden by higher level darkness magic.
I don't see any reason that darkness would negate fire being hot, though, so I'd still expect them to take damage. They'd probably still glow, too, if they left the area of Deeper Darkness. The blog suggests that the 'counters or dispels' clause in Light and Darkness spells are more 'at the moment of casting' (for a counter) or 'cast it on the object' (for dispelling). They mention lesser light spells being subsumed by Daylight, implying that they're still active but don't matter because Daylight is brighter, so the 1d6 minutes of glowing should still be in effect.
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