Trying to Wrap My Head Around "Hide in Plain Sight"

[Neal Litherland]

So, I've recently put my first Shadowdancer into play, and I'm trying to wrap my head around the Hide in Plain Sight ability. I know it isn't a skill-based form of invisibility, so I can't just walk down a dimly-lit corridor like it ain't no thing, but I'm having difficulty understanding precisely what the advantages of it are. If you can't just pull a Lamont Cranston and step into a dark alleyway to vanish, then what IS it good for?

You can make Stealth checks while being observed if you're within 10 feet of a shadow. That doesn't remove the necessity for cover or concealment, though (or it doesn't appear to, at least). So what is the advantage of being able to step into another room if people can see you went that way?

If there's a guide that breaks this down, or something in a book or FAQ that would help, I'd appreciate a link.

[Snowlilly]

A shadowdancer using HIPS does not need cover or concealment. He simply has to be within 10' of an area containing dim light.

The advantages of HIPS

• Can move through open areas of any light level, as long as an area of dim light is within 10'
  
• Low-light vision, darkvision, and see in darkness will not reveal a character using HIPS (No need for concealment, only the ambient light level matters.)
  
• Since you are using stealth, not invisibility, See Invisibility and related spells will not work
  

[JosMartigan]

I guess the big difference is that it's supernatural not extraordinary? The idea is so simple that I feel like I'm missing something. But maybe it's just THAT simple?

[Neal Litherland]

This is precisely how I THOUGHT it was supposed to work. However, it seems that the ability is viewed differently elsewhere. According to most of the people I asked in Pathfinder FB groups, HIPS did not take away the need for cover or concealment. Therefore you still had to have one or the other in order to make the Stealth check.

That confused me, of course, because if you had either of those things then they wouldn't have line of sight on you, so you could make a Stealth check normally.

Upon further reflection, saying you can do it while being observed does imply that you no longer need cover or concealment to make the checks. Just the necessary nearness to areas of low light. Thanks for weighing in on what likely seems an uncontroversial topic.

[toastedamphibian]

Neal Litherland wrote:

This is precisely how I THOUGHT it was supposed to work. However, it seems that the ability is viewed differently elsewhere. According to most of the people I asked in Pathfinder FB groups, HIPS did not take away the need for cover or concealment. Therefore you still had to have one or the other in order to make the Stealth check.

That confused me, of course, because if you had either of those things then they wouldn't have line of sight on you, so you could make a Stealth check normally.

Upon further reflection, saying you can do it while being observed does imply that you no longer need cover or concealment to make the checks. Just the necessary nearness to areas of low light. Thanks for weighing in on what likely seems an uncontroversial topic.

Total Cover or Concealment break line of sight, simple cover or concealment do not. Also "Observing" means with any sense.

Normally, stepping into a shadowy corner will not let you hide, as they can still see you. Stepping around a rock will not let you hide effectively, as they know where you went and as soon as they walk around the rock, you will lose cover, and they will see you.

Shadowdancer lets you stand directly in front of a dwarf under a shady tree, and have him just fail to see you, somehow.

[UnArcaneElection]

^ . . . Like that mosquito that has gotten into your room, that you are trying to squash in flight, and suddenly it just cloaks . . . .

[Isonaroc]

toastedamphibian wrote:

Shadowdancer lets you stand directly in front of a dwarf under a shady tree, and have him just fail to see you, somehow.

More than that, it lets you stand in the middle of a spotlight directly in front of a dwarf, within 10' of a shadowy alcove, and still have her fail to see you.

[zrandrews]

In the real world you might see it represented by someone staying in another persons blind spot, like behind them or being in the umbra of another person or thing and then getting into the shadows when someone looks in your direction.

In the turn based pathfinder world, where everyone is looking in all directions at the same time and everyone freezes in place when it's your turn, they just say you need to be withing 10' of dim light.

It is a turn based abstracting of something that might be possible in real time (if you were like, a ninja in a movie or something. You know, like when they're all hiding on the ceiling and the person doesn't seem to notice them, even though the camera does, and then they drop down and you have to like, do a crazy dive into the kitchen to avoid their blades, and then are forced to defend your life with only a frying pan and a wooden spoon).

[Ascalaphus]

No, Hide in Plain Sight isn't a reasonable ability that works because you're handy at ducking into shadows. You're 10 feet away from those shadows and you're not taking one step closer, but that's good enough for you because "magic". People are standing right in front of you, and can't see you. That's why it's called hiding in plain sight.

Don't feel bad that you're violating realism this way. You're at least level six, overweight wizards are flying through the sky chucking fireballs with no noticeable caloric expenditure, clerics are walking on water and your druid buddy just walked through a stone wall.

[Isonaroc]

Ascalaphus wrote:

No, Hide in Plain Sight isn't a reasonable ability that works because you're handy at ducking into shadows. You're 10 feet away from those shadows and you're not taking one step closer, but that's good enough for you because "magic". People are standing right in front of you, and can't see you. That's why it's called hiding in plain sight.

With the exception of the rogue version, which is more about blending into terrain, yeah. For assassins and shadowdancer sits about their innate connection to the Plane of Shadow (or however you want to fluff it) making them difficult to notice. I think of it kinda like the Grey Men from Wheel of Time, because of their supernatural ability you could walk into an empty featureless corridor with one there just chilling and not notice them.

Quote:

Don't feel bad that you're violating realism this way. You're at least level six, overweight wizards are flying through the sky chucking fireballs with no noticeable caloric expenditure, clerics are walking on water and your druid buddy just walked through a stone wall.

But supernatural stuff is wrongbadfun or something. Though, if one is concerned with realism, one wonders why you're picking a shadowdancer or assassin. Or playing Pathfinder, for that matter.