|
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Is there anything or an FAQ (if not its needed)
Surprise
When a combat starts, if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, you're surprised.
Determining Awareness
Sometimes all the combatants on a side are aware of their opponents, sometimes none are, and sometimes only some of them are. Sometimes a few combatants on each side are aware and the other combatants on each side are unaware.
Determining awareness may call for Perception checks or other checks.
The Surprise Round
If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.
Unaware Combatants
Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don't get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
So It says Opponents, and some DMs would say that if 1234 vs abcd. If 3 was stealth, and only a noticed him, then no surprise round. Other would say There is a surprise round, But only for 3 vs bcd.
Is there any ruling on which way it goes?
Thanks,
Black Lotus
You just cited the rule.
If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin.
So in the situation you described there will be a surprise round. Most likely some participants won't be able to act in that round, but the round still occurs.
Yes, But a DM in society just ruled against that, saying that Opponents means some or all.
You are going to have to elaborate on that because I have no idea what you are trying to say.
As long as you are aware of any number of opponents at the start of a combat, you get to act in the surprise round. Not being aware of the guy behind that tree doesn't mean you won't react to the guy standing in the clearing if you've noticed him. Likewise, if an array of archers in the trees ambushes a group of adventurers in the camp, the camp watch may succeed at perception only against one guy, and the guys in the ambush are only aware of the camp watch as the others are in tents or bags. In this situation, all the ambushers get to act in the surprise round and the watch also gets to act, and the watch may even get to act first, but because he doesn't know the other ambushers are there he'll only act against the guy he saw.
If that makes sense.
|
|
If abcd were all aware of 124, and 1234 were all aware of abcd, and combat is starting as soon as they become aware of each other, then I don't think there would be a surprise round. However, bcd might not be able to attack 3 until they become aware of him, and they would still be (EDIT: denied their Dex-bonus) against him.
If abcd and 124 are talking and not in combat, and 3 begins combat, then I might grant a surprise round in which a and 3 can act, but not anybody else.
If 124 know that 3 is going to start combat, or if they're able to observe him wherever he's hiding, then I might let them act in the surprise round, but it just depends.
Basically, it comes down to a GM call at the start of combat about who is aware of who and whether a surprise round is necessary.
there's be a surprise round where just 3 acts since abcd don't see 3.
|
|
I'm his example, a sees 3. But abcd and 124 all see each other. there's no reason 3 should get to act before his own teammates. If no one is aware of anyone, then a door opens and everyone sees everyone at the same time (except 3 is stealthed from bcd), then there's no surprise round. 3 is still stealthed from bcd, so on 3s turn, even if bcd have acted, they'd still be denied their Dex.
It really depends on the specific situation. If 3 is stealthed and his own party can't see him, and a is the only other character that can, and combat is not initiating anyway, then 3 could start combat off with a surprise round, and a and 3 would get to act.
But we don't really know what the specifics of the situation are. It's a judgement call for the GM based on the actual situation.
there's be a surprise round where just 3 acts since abcd don't see 3.
I'm finding Black Lotus' description of the situation hard to follow, but I'm pretty sure that he said 'a' was aware of '3' rather than '3' was aware of 'a.'
If 3 was stealth, and only a noticed him...
He didn't mention whether anyone else was aware of any opponents, but from the alternative rules interpretation that he gave I think that only '3,' 'b,' 'c,' and 'd' were completely caught off guard.
Other would say There is a surprise round, But only for 3 vs bcd.
So I think the situation is that '1,' '2,' '4,' and 'a' are all aware of at least one opponent, but '3,' 'b,' 'c,' and 'd' are not aware of any. In which case there would be a Surprise Round, but only '1,' '2,' '4,' and 'a' would be able to act (unless any of the others had an ability like Forewarned from the Wizard Divination School).
Edit: Ninja'd by Ferious Thune with a margin of mere seconds. :)
sorry, if A sees 3 when abcd and 1234 meet up then a surprise round of just A and 3 goes off.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is fairly straight-forward;
Anyone aware of one or more enemies gets to react. If everyone (on both sides) gets to react then there is no surprise round. Otherwise, there is a surprise round and only those aware of enemies get to act.
You seem to be saying that all eight combatants are aware of at least one enemy. There is thus no logical reason that any of them would be standing around oblivious to the sudden presence of danger. They are all reacting, and thus no surprise round.