Bladebound Magus + selecting a different type of weapon


Rules Questions


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Bladebound Magus is tied to selecting a 1h slashing weapon, or a rapier or sword cane. Given feats that alter how weapons work, or class features that alter how the holder uses said weapon, is the magus tied to what the weapon is, or how the wield uses said weapon?

Examples:

Titan Mauler Barbarian allows the use of 2h weapons in one hand, however this doesn't make the weapon a 1h weapon.

Bladed Brush allows you to treat a Glaive as a 1h slashing or piercing weapon.

If you had this feat, could you select a glaive as your bladebound weapon?

Spear Dancing Style feat chain, mixed with the Quarterstaff Mastery allows you to use said polearm in one hand.

If you had these lists of feats, could you then select that polearm as your bladebound weapon, given the weapon was a slashing Polearm?

Grand Lodge

I'd say NO, as the weapon is chosen at lvl 3, and unless you can get all of the Spear Dancing style/Bladed Brush by third level, the glaive will not qualify as a "one-handed slashing weapon"

also, i see nowhere that Quarterstaff Mastery translates the bonus to Polearms.


@Selvaxri

Your first line, all you need is weapon focus, and the ability to wield a glaive, Kensai Magus gives you both at level one, you take Bladed Brush, and the weapon now counts as a 1h weapon.

Quarterstaff Mastery lets you wield a Quarterstaff in one hand, Spear Dancing Spiral lets you use any feat that applies to a quarterstaff with your chosen pole arm, translating to you can wield any pole arm in one hand.


A quote for the feat in question, as its already been posted in another thread, I guess its ok?

Paths of the Righteous, p. 15 wrote: wrote:

Bladed Brush (Combat)
You know how to balance a polearm perfectly, striking with artful, yet deadly precision.
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus (glaive), must be a worshiper of Shelyn.
Benefit: You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a glaive sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon. When wielding a glaive, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s or swashbuckler’s precise strike).
As a move action, you can shorten your grip on the glaive, treating it as though it lacked the reach weapon property. You can adjust your grip to grant the weapon the reach property as a move action.


I would say: No.
The description of the black blade reads: "A black blade is always a one-handed slashing weapon..."
Therefore i would reference it via the equipment tables of the rule books. If the table shows a "1H" and damage type "Slash" it qualifies otherwise not.

As a wise child said: a spoon is a spoon ;)


The bladed brush feat reads

Quote:
you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon

Because "black blade" is a class ability, I would say it's a reasonable interpretation that a magus who has bladed brush by now may choose the glaive as his black blade.

Liberty's Edge

This is a case where you are dealing with the physical nature of the weapon. The black blade has to be a rapier, sword cane, or one-handed slashing weapon.

'Black blade' isn't an ability which you can use with one-handed slashing weapons... it is a physical object. It has to physically be a weapon of the appropriate type at all times... not just be able to be used as such by the wielder.

It's like the Disruption magic weapon special ability... that can only be enchanted on a bludgeoning melee weapon. There are feats which allow you to do bludgeoning damage with ANY melee weapon... so is this ability available for all melee weapons? No... because it is based on the physical nature of the weapon, NOT how the weapon is used. The black blade is the same.


@CBDunkerson

While I agree with your statement and reasoning completely it's hard to over look the fact that adds brush calls out class features in its list that it effects. Which to me means it possibly could be a black blade. I'm not trying to convince you one way or another. Just wanted to put in how I read the feat.

Shadow Lodge

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Ask yourself this question first every time. Is this for a home game? If yes, ask your GM, he/she has final say in the matter. If no, then is it for a PFS game. If yes, then you better come with a backup character in case the GM at the table disagrees with your interpretation of the rules.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rylden wrote:
While I agree with your statement and reasoning completely it's hard to over look the fact that adds brush calls out class features in its list that it effects. Which to me means it possibly could be a black blade. I'm not trying to convince you one way or another. Just wanted to put in how I read the feat.

I believe Bladed Brush, Quarterstaff Master, Jotungrip, and various other such options are intended to work with class abilities (e.g. Spell Combat & Precise Strike).

However, I do not believe they are intended to physically transform objects (e.g. Black Blade, Disruption, or Effortless Lace). The Black Blade class feature allows the character to gain a physical object which "is always a one-handed slashing weapon, a rapier, or a sword cane". A glaive is not always a one-handed slashing weapon. Indeed, it is NEVER physically such... rather there are various conditions under which it can be USED as such.

Note that if you don't distinguish between item use and physical nature then ANY melee weapon can be a black blade. Just take the Weapon Versatility feat and Weapon Focus for the weapon in question. If it is a light weapon then get one sized for a creature one category larger. If it is two-handed then get one sized for a creature one category smaller. Voila! ANY melee weapon in the game can now be used as a 'one-handed slashing' weapon.

Another way of looking at it: If 'black bladeness' is subjectively determined by the character's abilities, then it can be cancelled if the character loses the ability to use a glaive as a one-handed slashing weapon (e.g. they used an Ioun Stone to get glaive proficiency and the stone is stolen, removing their pre-req and thus making the Bladed Brush feat non functional). One moment you've got a sentient glaive with centuries of history and its own secret agenda... and the next it is a completely mundane glaive. Because you no longer know how to wield it effectively in one hand? It just doesn't make sense.


CBDunkerson wrote:
Another way of looking at it: If 'black bladeness' is subjectively determined by the character's abilities, then it can be cancelled if the character loses the ability to use a glaive as a one-handed slashing weapon (e.g. they used an Ioun Stone to get glaive proficiency and the stone is stolen, removing their pre-req and thus making the Bladed Brush feat non functional). One moment you've got a sentient glaive with centuries of history and its own secret agenda... and the next it is a completely mundane glaive. Because you no longer know how to wield it effectively in one hand? It just doesn't make sense.

In a world of magic, it does make sense that certain magic items/class features cease to function if their user is unable to specific requirements.

Not only does it make sense, there are quite a few magic weapons in Pathfinder that do so specifically.

A character can try to game the system by gaining prerequisites temporarily, but it is never wise. If that means you loose access to class features when you no longer meet the prerequisites, that too has plenty of precedent in Pathfinder.

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