Spheres of Power, I need some clarifications / advice

[Lao Haeris]

Hello everyone.

I am about to start a new game and we replaced vancian magic with spheres of power, akashic mysteries, pact magic, and psionics.

I am trying to wrap my head around spheres of power as it is the only system I am not very familiar. I have some questions.

1) How did people balance alteration? It seems that I can give 3-4 traits at 6 level (with the advanced talent) traits. I can also spent an extra spell point to give all an equal amount of traits to 1 ally for every 2 levels I posses. So at 6th level I can spent 2 spell points and give to my three melee 3-4 traits which include pounce (1 trait), 4 claw attacks each (2 traits), an extra pair of arms (1 trait) and later give them even more hands and fly speed, more natural attacks etc.
So they can fullattack every round due to pounce and get a terrible amount of offensive power.
Add couple of buffs from one or two other classes, and godforbid if one of those is a bard and you just created unstoppable killing machines.

Am I doing something wrong here? Am I understanding something wrong? even without the advanced talent you still can spread around 3 traits to 3 people at 6th level.

2) Similarly, how do you deal with multiattackers? either via the twf style or natural attacks, when someone stacks number of attacks, shocking weapon quality, has a bard in the party which enhances every single attack with inspire courage, throw couple of buffs and your average unarmed strikes/twf/Natural attacks jester becomes monstrous?
I know DR is a thing... but it seems every single creature will have to be modified as such to have a chance of staying alive.

[Kaouse]

This is 3rd party, so I assume t needs to be moved to the third party forums. Aside from that, your main issue here is pounce, it seems. As such, I'd suggest making use of difficult terrain and other anti-charge mechanics.

As for granting a fly speed, I don't think there's a talent that lets you do that as a trait. Rather, you have to turn into something that can fly, and that means all their gear melds into their body, drastically lowering AC and whatnot.

You could also punish attack flurries with "on hit" effects, like a creature with spikes or one made of acid. Lastly, remember that multiple natural attacks do 0.5x STR damage unless otherwise stated.

[GM Rednal]

1) Advanced Talents are not normally available, and require explicit GM permission in order to take because they're so powerful and could throw off game balance.

2) Don't forget about maintaining these powers. This generally means either Concentrating or spending Spell Points to have things persist. If you're transforming your whole party on a regular basis, that's going to burn through your power very quickly.

3) Which also implies that they WANT to be transformed that frequently, and all being basically the same and doing exactly what you want, rather than playing their own characters and doing other things. I feel this is unlikely.

4) And if you feel it's too much for your table... well, don't do that. Take the Lycanthropic drawback and limit your transformations to yourself.

[Grovestrider]

Quote:

1) How did people balance alteration? It seems that I can give 3-4 traits at 6 level (with the advanced talent) traits. I can also spent an extra spell point to give all an equal amount of traits to 1 ally for every 2 levels I posses. So at 6th level I can spent 2 spell points and give to my three melee 3-4 traits which include pounce (1 trait), 4 claw attacks each (2 traits), an extra pair of arms (1 trait) and later give them even more hands and fly speed, more natural attacks etc.

So they can fullattack every round due to pounce and get a terrible amount of offensive power.
Add couple of buffs from one or two other classes, and godforbid if one of those is a bard and you just created unstoppable killing machines.

Am I doing something wrong here? Am I understanding something wrong? even without the advanced talent you still can spread around 3 traits to 3 people at 6th level.

Some very minor things to note:

1st, you may be able to grant 3-4 traits at CASTER LEVEL 6 (with the Advanced Talent). But being caster level 6 does not mean the same thing for everyone. For example:
- an Armorist is 12th level when she has a Caster Level of 6. Eight talents to spend on spheres/talents. BAB of +12/+7/+2.
- a Hedgewitch is 8th level when she has a Caster Level of 6. Eight talents to spend on spheres/talents. BAB of +6/+1.
- a Shifter is 6th level when she has a Caster Level of 6. Six talents (with Alteration being free) to spend on spheres/talents. BAB of +4
- a Soul Weaver is 6th level when she has a Caster Level of 6. Eight talents to spend on spheres/talents. BAB of +3.

So, even assuming that the character in question is not only CL 6, but level 6 aswell, that sort of limits us to High-Casters and the Shifter (neither of which benefit from their own pounce ability at that level). In addition, in order to give all the abilities you listed, you would need the following talents (not including the Alteration sphere:
- Additional Limbs
- Avian Transformation
- Bestial Reflexes
- Greater Transformation
- Mass Alteration
- Extreme Transformation

A shifter would have to spend ALL his talents on acquiring these to do all this. A soul weaver would have only 1 talent remaining to either spend on the Alteration talents or to acquire a new sphere.

In other words, it would be a heavy investment, as opposed to a single spell slot (with Vancian spellcasting).

Quote:

2) Similarly, how do you deal with multiattackers? either via the twf style or natural attacks, when someone stacks number of attacks, shocking weapon quality, has a bard in the party which enhances every single attack with inspire courage, throw couple of buffs and your average unarmed strikes/twf/Natural attacks jester becomes monstrous?

I know DR is a thing... but it seems every single creature will have to be modified as such to have a chance of staying alive.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but multiattackers at level 6 aren't exactly something new (Animal Companions, Beast Form, Eidolons, etc). The Alteration sphere doesn't change that. But unless the targets of the shapeshift also invest in feats such as Multiattack, they may find their secondary attacks missing more often than not.