So, I've found a whole slew of stuff to amp base damage (I think I figured out I could get any one type up to Gargantuan and the rest up to like Huge from a small character). Right now, I'm looking for effects. I'd like as many from feats as possible (odd request, but this character is strangely lacking in the feats plans). I'm talking about things like Eldritch Claws (Silver) or Devil Foe (good), though in the case of Devil Foe, I'm wondering if there's something (other than being a good character) that would make it basically against anything, rather than JUST devils.
I'm willing to use enchantments for SOME of it, but amulet of mighty fists is pretty limited, so I'd like as many as possible via not-feats. We also have something workable for metals that doesn't require either, so if there aren't many, that's fine.
There's a few which add an intimidate check - Enforcer or Cornugon Smash are the usual. Being really big would help with those. Felling Smash might combine well with Cornugon Smash if you've got a lot of feats to throw around.
Critical feats would work, tho' I'd prefer not to use them on 20/x2 crits which most natural weapons are.
Any of the ____ Assault feats could be useful.
Feral Combat Training adds options for unarmed strikes of course. ____ Strike, Stunning Fist, etc.
What sort of character are you working with here?
Zarius wrote: I'm talking about things like Eldritch Claws (Silver) or Devil Foe (good), though in the case of Devil Foe, I'm wondering if there's something (other than being a good character) that would make it basically against anything, rather than JUST devils. FTR, being a good character does not make your natural attacks good-aligned; you'd have to be of the good subtype (typically reserved for outsiders from Good planes) or use the holy enchantment or something.
Also, I wouldn't put an achievement feat (like Devil's Foe) into a build plan. You can't know when you'll satisfy the prereq, if ever.
Fuzzy, you actually can... if you're doing it intentionally, and your DM let's you use downtime for it. For example,Healer's touch. It doesn't say that the healing MUST be against an injured person. You could,literally, walk into a mental institution and start healing wackadoodles with a Heal spell, as part of your down time. Hit 1,000 HP healed, boom. You qual.
Wouldn't WANT to use Devil's Foe, though, since it only works on devils, specifically, and not all evil outsiders.
Did NOT realize that unarmed/natural attacks on a good character didn't qualify, though, so I'm glad I asked.
AVR, I'm working with an oracle, so decent BAB progression but absoolute b#!#$#@s for weapon proficiencies. True neutral, more of the "balancing the scales" variety than the "ignore everything" variety. Going to build him as an undead/outsider hunter. All outsiders, period. I'm looking at natural attacks (obviously) as my primary melee combat method. And, yes, eventually I do plan to take Multi-Atttack already.
I'd LIKE to use feats to make my attacks simulate metals, so that I can use the Amulet of Mighty Fists to do the alignments, though I know that there's the Frost and Forge amulets for Cold Iron and Adamantine, if absolutely needed.
It is my recommendation to just go numerical on the amulet. You'll have such a hard time with DR otherwise, plus the bonus to hit and damage really adds up. Unless you have no claw attacks, rending claws, into rending fury is nice. There are also some cool additional rending feats that you will then qualify for.
Backpack's not wrong - as soon as you can afford it a +3 or +4 AoMF makes life a lot easier.
If the game's lower level though, play an aasimar and Angelic Flesh gives you the ability to bypass one of cold iron or silver DR, plus another minor benefit.
If there's someone in the party who might cast Versatile Weapon on you, that explicitly works on natural weapons. Or, with sufficient UMD and a scroll or similar you could do so yourself, or a Metal mystery oracle gets that spell known at 8th level.
Hmm... Versatile Weapon looks bloody useful for the metals issue. Way better than what we'd had thought of originally.
Not so sure about the rending ability, I'll have to think on it. It DOES work into the rough mental profile I'm making for him, the "feral child" archetype. Bite, claws, sting, tentacle, gore... gonna go for the whole kit and kaboodle.
VW does have one downside. It affects a natural weapon - not all your natural weapons. Not even all of one type like claws. And it only lasts minutes/level.
Yeah, but it gives me a foundation for negotiation lol
Also, how are you getting to gargantuan? You can only have at most one actual size increase and one virtual size increase. If you have multiple virtual increases like strong jaw + impact amulet of mighty fists they don't stack.
Imbicatus wrote: Also, how are you getting to gargantuan? You can only have at most one actual size increase and one virtual size increase. If you have multiple virtual increases like strong jaw + impact amulet of mighty fists they don't stack. You can go up to huge with Kinetic Form and then have someone strong jaw you to get to colossal damage no matter what starting size but that only comes online at level 16.
If you take the Mutation Mind Psychic archetype you can get this at lvl 11
But thats the only way I know to get up to 3 size increases (assuming you add a virtual size increase also)
Imbicatus wrote: Also, how are you getting to gargantuan? You can only have at most one actual size increase and one virtual size increase. If you have multiple virtual increases like strong jaw + impact amulet of mighty fists they don't stack. First, nothing says that a virtual increase from, say, Iron Jaw and from an Amulet of Mighty Fists don't stack. Strong Jaw is technically untyped sources, so as long as I'm literally not trying to use the exact same spell, the RAW state they do.
A good example of what I'm referring to is the Forgemaster's Hammer, which requires the spell Crafter's Fortune to make... but the +5 bonus on it stacks with the +5 bonus from Crafter's fortune, because (in spite of the fact that the item requires the spell) the bonuses are different bonuses.
I WILL point out, however, one reason you are correct about your specific example:
"This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons that are not light weapons."
All natural weapons are classified as light weapons.
(http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-finesse-combat---final)
The FAQ says otherwise. You get one real size increase and one virtual size increase. Enlarge Person + Strong Jaw, yes, Strong Jaw + Impact no.
Perhaps you should read this FAQ.
Multiple size changes do not stack, and multiple effective size increases do not stack.
I would, first, like to congratulate the two of you on a synchronized attack. :P You both linked the same FAQ.
Impact doesn't work, period, on natural attacks, because they're classified as Light weapons.
However, the following:
First, Strong Jaw (two step effective/virtual increase). Spell.
Second, Improved Natural attacks (one step unspecified increase, but states "as if the creature had increased in size"). Feat.
Third, 5th level sorcerer perk on some blood lines (increases base die step to one above their size).
Fourth, Polymorph up a size category.
Flow of logic: Polymorph increases creature, then the sorcerer perk increases actual claw size, then Improve Natural Attack increases "as though" size had gone up again. After which, the only virtual increase (Strong Jaw) does the virtual increase.
The first one affects the whole body, the second only the actual weapon, the third with an "as though getting larger" qualifier. I could be swayed to believe that the Improved Natural Attack could be overridden by something else, if it weren't for the fact that it's a feat, and there is no feat that grants anything similar.
But am I to understand that increasing the size of a creature somehow negates it having larger claws? Or is this some kinda balance malarkey?
So the FAQ puts every size increase into one of two categories thus all of the abilities you mention have to be in one of those two and will not stack with increases of the same category unless you have some ability somewhere that specifically states it stacks with like bonuses... I don't think any of those exist however. Still, as I mentioned above it can be done at exceptionally high level using just one of each size type.
First/Second don't stack, no. If you're looking at, say, the upgrade to the 1st level claws that the draconic bloodline gets at 7th, that looks like it does stack because it's a damage die increase which has no language about increasing size in any way. - Edit: Bob Bob Bob's right.
As to why? Many game designers get cold feet when they see large numbers. Compare the changes in power attack between D&D/PF, or the imposition of 'limits' in Shadowrun 5e.
We posted at literally the same time, so... I win! And we posted the same thing, because, well, it directly contradicts what you were saying.
Strong Jaw and INA do not stack. The FAQ is very clear on that. FAQ wrote: The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). Strong Jaw also doesn't stack with any of the sorcerer bloodlines I checked (I didn't check them all though). They all use "increases by one step".
All of them (independently) stack with Polymorph though, as that's an actual size increase.
Again, it doesn't matter what's being affected. The character can only benefit from two size increases, one actual and one virtual. Their example at the end even uses a Bashing shield (which is a purely external thing).
That's some BS, though I suppose I can see the reasoning. It is kinda OP to have a small sized creature doing damage as though they were a colossal sized creature. Murf. Talkin' to my DM about that part, then.
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