Disclaimer: This is my first ever creature created for pathfinder, it's bound to be wrong and thus why I'm asking for your help.
The Concept: The rift Giant is a new race of extraplanar giants that live on the cliff sides of the Worldwound. these fiendish giand has just recently started to reveal themselves.
Developement note:
I began with a CR 12 Huge giant to which I've added the Fiendish template which gave it a +1 CR (I was also debating adding the Entropic template too, but decided outerwise).
There not Demon, nor are they Half-demon/planetouched, just altered by their environment.
Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated
Spoiler:
Rift Giant CR 13
XP 25,600 XP
CE Huge Fiendish Humanoid (Extraplanar, Giant)
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +15
DEFENSE
AC 20, touch 9, flat-footed 19 (+6 armor, +1 shield, +1 Dex, -2 size +4 Natural armor)
hp 162 (17d8+85)
Fort +11, Ref +5, Will +10
Defensive Abilities Rock catching, Resist Cold 15, Fire 15, DR 10/Good, SR 18
OFFENSE
Speed 40’ (30' when armoured)
Melee Shotel +17/+12 (2d6+8 / x3) or 2 slam +14 (2d6+8)
Ranged Rock +9/+4 (1d8+8)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks Rock Throwing (120’), Smite Good 1/day
STATISTICS Str 26, Dex 13, Con 20, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 12
Base Atk +9; CMB +19; CMD 29
Feats Greater fortitude, Improve Initiative, Exotic Weapon proficiency (Shotel), Weapon Focus (Shotel), power Attack, vital Strike
Skills Acrobatics +10, climb +18, Intimidate+14, Knowledge (Geography) +7, Knowledge (Plane) +7, Perception +15, Stealth +10(+7 with armor), Survival +10 Racial Modifiers +8 Acrobatic, +4 Climb, +4 stealth (Mountainous Cliffside)
Languages Common, Giant, Abyssal
Equipment Masterwork Shotel, Masterwork Breatplate (Agile), Masterwork light steel shield
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Smite Good (su) Once per day, the Rift Giant may smite a good-aligned creature. As a swift action, the giant chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is good, the giant adds its Charisma bonus (if any) to attack rolls and gains a damage bonus equal to its HD against that foe. This effect persists until the target is dead or the creature rests
The Rift Giant can be summoned using spells such as summon monster and planar ally.
You've mostly done an alright job, but there are a few numbers that are out, and overall this monster seems very weak for CR 13. I'll offer corrections for the technical problems first before I evaluate what its CR should be.
We'll start with saving throws, since those are easy. As a giant humanoid, its fortitude save should be 2 + 1/2 hit dice + constitution modifier. You also have the great fortitude feat, so its fortitude save should be +17. Reflex should be 1/3 hit dice + dexterity modifier, so that's +6. Will should be 1/3 hit dice + wisdom modifier, so that should be +7.
Next let's move on to base attack bonus. As a humanoid this should be 3/4 hit dice, so +12. This means his attack values should all be higher than you have listed. His Shotel attack should be +19/+14/+9 (2d6+8/x3). This is arrived at with +12 base attack, +8 strength, +1 masterwork, -2 size. The slam attack should be 2 slams +18 (2d6+8). Finally, the rock attack should be +10 2d6+12 (rock attacks don't gain iterative attacks, but do gain 1 1/2 strength).
Feats are up next; you have 6 feats assigned, but with 17 hit dice this monster should have 9 feats. You can always use filler like Toughness or Iron will, but I'd recommend trying to get some more interesting feats here.
Now let's look at the monster's CR. The guidelines (you can find them here) for a typical CR 13 monster is 180 hit points, 28 AC, +22 to hit, 60 damage (if everything hits), +16 on strong saving throws, and +12 on weak saving throws. Given that your monster has few special defenses and no secondary abilities, it should be above average in most of these categories. You're below-average or severely below average in every category, meaning this monster is certainly not CR 13. As a comparison, the Taiga Giant is better than your Rift Giant in almost every way, but is only CR 12.
What path you choose to pursue with this monster form here is up to you. With the technical corrections I've made you've got a solid CR 10 giant, or you could continue to improve it to get it more in line with CR 11 or 12. An interesting special ability is often the best way to create an awesome monster, as you get a lot more flavor than you would just by increasing its strength or adding better equipment.
give it the ability to open a small chaos rift in an area doing chaos damage with in the area fort for half (half damage to chaotic aligned creatures) and have other "rift" creatures be immune to the effect it would be great flavor for the creature
You've mostly done an alright job, but there are a few numbers that are out, and overall this monster seems very weak for CR 13. I'll offer corrections for the technical problems first before I evaluate what its CR should be.
Thank you it is much appreciated. Part of the problem, why my numbers are off is that I was getting tired and took the CR instead of the HD to calculate the BAB, Saves and Feat.
But I was pretty sure he wasn’t where he was supposed to be.
Dasrak wrote:
We'll start with saving throws, since those are easy. As a giant humanoid, its fortitude save should be 2 + 1/2 hit dice + constitution modifier. You also have the great fortitude feat, so its fortitude save should be +17. Reflex should be 1/3 hit dice + dexterity modifier, so that's +6. Will should be 1/3 hit dice + wisdom modifier, so that should be +7.
I see what you mean. In his case though the Good save (2+1/2 HD) is the Will Save and Reflex and Fortitude are poor save (1/3 HD). The reasoning I had was that considering the environment are were more likely faced with Mental assault from the land and the Demon almost as much as they would be facing poison and disease and thus they built a better Will save than one would expect in Giants. With this in mind it gives them a Fort +12, Ref +6, Will +12…which is still on the weak side for all but the fortitude save which is where it should be.
Dasrak wrote:
Next let's move on to base attack bonus. As a humanoid this should be 3/4 hit dice, so +12. This means his attack values should all be higher than you have listed. His Shotel attack should be +19/+14/+9 (2d6+8/x3). This is arrived at with +12 base attack, +8 strength, +1 masterwork, -2 size. The slam attack should be 2 slams +18 (2d6+8). Finally, the rock attack should be +10 2d6+12 (rock attacks don't gain iterative attacks, but do gain 1 1/2 strength).
Fixed that. Thank you
Dasrak wrote:
Feats are up next; you have 6 feats assigned, but with 17 hit dice this monster should have 9 feats. You can always use filler like Toughness or Iron will, but I'd recommend trying to get some more interesting feats here.
I’ve decided to go with: Cleave, Great Cleave, Combat Reflex. The first two are a good continuation for power attack. The last one was for the ability to make 2 AoO even when flat-footed.
I was debating between Combat Reflex (2 AoO even flatfooted), Combat Expertise (-4 to hit +4 Dodge bonus) and Improved Vital Strike (Triple damage for 1 attack) as all tree could be useful, but I figured being AoO, especially flat-footed would come in handy more often.
Dasrak wrote:
Now let's look at the monster's CR. The guidelines (you can find them here) for a typical CR 13 monster is 180 hit points, 28 AC, +22 to hit, 60 damage (if everything hits), +16 on strong saving throws, and +12 on weak saving throws. Given that your monster has few special defenses and no secondary abilities, it should be above average in most of these categories. You're below-average or severely below average in every category, meaning this monster is certainly not CR 13. As a comparison, the Taiga Giant is better than your Rift Giant in almost every way, but is only CR 12.
I was initially basing myself on the CR 12 guidelines: HP 160, AC 27, Att 21 (poor 15) Dam 55 (poor 41) DC 21 (or poor 15) good Save of 15 and weak save of 11. And in this case my HP (162), Fort Save 12 are where they should be. My attack of +19 is getting close, my damage 45, Will 12, Ref 6 and AC 20 needs improvement.
The CR 13 came up when I gave it the fiendish Template (becase my HD was above 5) which gave me Darkvision, the ability to be summoned, the resistance to cold and fire, the Damage reduction, the Spell resistance and the Smite Good.
So should I still base my figure on the CR12 or CR 13 guideline?
Dasrak wrote:
What path you choose to pursue with this monster form here is up to you. With the technical corrections I've made you've got a solid CR 10 giant, or you could continue to improve it to get it more in line with CR 11 or 12. An interesting special ability is often the best way to create an awesome monster, as you get a lot more flavor than you would just by increasing its strength or adding better equipment.
That’s what I’m trying to conceptualized: A Giant living on the Edge of the Material plane and the Abyss, neither demon nor normal giant. I was thinking maybe Chitineous or bone plate for extra Natural armour and visual effect.
I could maybe give it the ability to summon or control Lesser Demon (say CR 7 or less) which would be either: Abrikandilu, Drech, Cambion, Babau, incubus, Schir, Sucubus, Shadow demon, or quasit
Spoiler:
Rift Giant CR 13
XP 25,600 XP
CE Huge Fiendish Humanoid (Extraplanar, Giant)
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +15
DEFENSE
AC 20, touch 9, flat-footed 19 (+6 armor, +1 shield, +1 Dex, -2 size +4 Natural armor)
hp 162 (17d8+85)
Fort +12, Ref +6, Will +12
Defensive Abilities Rock catching, Resist Cold 15, Fire 15, DR 10/Good, SR 18
OFFENSE
Speed 40’(30' will armoured)
Melee mwk Shotel +19/+14/+9 (2d6+8/x3) or 2 slam +18 (2d6+8)
Ranged Rock +10 (2d6+12)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks Rock Throwing (120’), Smite Good 1/day
STATISTICS
Str 26, Dex 13, Con 20, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 12
Base Atk +12; CMB +22; CMD 33
Feats Greater fortitude, Improve Initiative, Exotic Weapon proficiency (Shotel), Weapon Focus (Shotel), power Attack, vital Strike, Cleave, Great Cleave, Combat Reflex
Skills Acrobatics +10, climb +18, Intimidate+14, Knowledge (Geography) +7, Knowledge (Plane) +7, Perception +15, Stealth +10(+7 with armor), Survival +10 Racial Modifiers +8 Acrobatic, +4 Climb, +4 stealth (Mountainous Cliffside)
Languages Common, Giant, Abyssal
Equipment Masterwork Shotel, Masterwork Breastplate (Agile), Masterwork light steel shield
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Smite Good (su) Once per day, the Rift Giant may smite a good-aligned creature. As a swift action, the giant chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is good, the giant adds its Charisma bonus (if any) to attack rolls and gains a damage bonus equal to its HD against that foe. This effect persists until the target is dead or the creature rests
The Rift Giant can be summoned using spells such as summon monster and [i]planar ally[/1].
Lady-J wrote:
give it the ability to open a small chaos rift in an area doing chaos damage with in the area fort for half (half damage to chaotic aligned creatures) and have other "rift" creatures be immune to the effect it would be great flavor for the creature
That's an interesting idea, thank you, I'll think about it and see how I could make it work.
I see what you mean. In his case though the Good save (2+1/2 HD) is the Will Save and Reflex and Fortitude are poor save (1/3 HD). The reasoning I had was that considering the environment are were more likely faced with Mental assault from the land and the Demon almost as much as they would be facing poison and disease and thus they built a better Will save than one would expect in Giants. With this in mind it gives them a Fort +12, Ref +6, Will +12…which is still on the weak side for all but the fortitude save which is where it should be.
That works; humanoids can have a strong Will save instead of a strong Fort save. It's unconventional for giants, but it's legal. You can also fine-tune saving throws with Dex/Con/Wis and feats.
Andre Roy wrote:
The CR 13 came up when I gave it the fiendish Template (becase my HD was above 5) which gave me Darkvision, the ability to be summoned, the resistance to cold and fire, the Damage reduction, the Spell resistance and the Smite Good.
You do have to be very mindful with templates, since they can easily create monsters that are too strong or too weak for their CR. Fiendish is particularly tricky since it doesn't actually raise key attributes. The DR can be bypassed with the right weapon, and the SR can be ignored with the right spells or just overpowered if the wizard uses the right feats.
If you want to get this thing up to CR 13 territory, then the best approach would be to increase its attributes. More strength, more dexterity, constitution, and wisdom will boost its saves, health, armor class, and most importantly attack and damage. Try to get these numbers a little above average for CR 13 and you're probably good.
oh its fiendish i was thinking half fiend altho you could probably use the half fiend template for a +1 with a 10/magic dr and a cr+5 spell resist if you just get rid of all the spell like abilities
I've reduced the CR to the original 12 (despite keeping the template). I've Increased his Dex, Con, Wis and charisma, and changed Greater Fortitude for Iron Will.
The net effect of those changes are:
The AC is still a bit low (22 instead of 27),
the Reflex dave is still too low (8 instead of 11),
the Attack is 19 instead of 21 (still within range though),
the damage is still 45 instead of 55 (still within range though,
Hit points however are above what is expected 179 instead of 160.
I've added the Chaos Rift supernatural ability and the Summon spell-like ability. As well as detailled the Ecology part.
Spoiler:
Rift Giant CR 12
XP 19,200 XP
CE Huge Fiendish Humanoid (Extraplanar, Giant)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +16
DEFENSE
AC 22, touch 11, flat-footed 19 (+6 armor, +1 shield, +3 Dex, -2 size +4 Natural armor)
hp 179 (17d8+102)
Fort +11, Ref +8, Will +15
Defensive Abilities Rock catching, Resist Cold 15, Fire 15, DR 10/Good, SR 17
OFFENSE
Speed 40’ (30' in armour)
Melee mwk Shotel +19/+14/+9 (2d6+8/x3) or 2 slam +18 (2d6+8)
Ranged Rock +12 (2d6+12)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks Rock Throwing (120’), Smite Good 1/day, Chaos Rift 3/day
Spell-Like Abilities
1/day — summon (level 3, 1 Babau 20% or 1d4+1 Shir 45%)
STATISTICS
Str 26, Dex 17, Con 22, Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 14
Base Atk +12; CMB +22; CMD 35
Feats Iron Will, Improve Initiative, Exotic Weapon proficiency (Shotel), Weapon Focus (Shotel), power Attack, vital Strike, Cleave, Great Cleave, Combat Reflex
Skills Acrobatics +12, climb +18, Intimidate+15, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +5, Knowledge (Geography) +5, Knowledge (Plane) +6, Perception +16, Stealth +12(+9 with armor), Survival +11 Racial Modifiers +8 Acrobatic, +4 Climb, +4 stealth (Mountainous Cliffside)
Languages Common, Giant, Abyssal
Equipment Masterwork Shotel, Masterwork Breastplate (Agile), Masterwork light steel shield
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Smite Good (su) Once per day, the Rift Giant may smite a good-aligned creature. As a swift action, the giant chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is good, the giant adds its Charisma bonus (if any) to attack rolls and gains a damage bonus equal to its HD against that foe. This effect persists until the target is dead or the creature rests
Chaos Rift (su) Thrice a day, a Rift giant can create a small rift to the Abyss to appear, generating great turmoil as so much Chaos and Evil forces its way into the Material plane. Any creature within a 20 feet radius of the Rift will be affected as followed: On the first round, Good and Lawful creature will suffer 5d8 points of damage (10d6 points of damage in the case of a Good or Lawful outsider). Non-Good and Non-lawful creature suffers 3d8 points of damage. Chaotic Evil creatures are not affected by this effect. On all subsequent rounds, the damage is halved. A successful Will Save (DC 16) will reduce the effect by half. Chaotic Evil creatures are not affected by this effect. The Rift is unstable and remains open for 2d6+2 rounds before closing
The Rift Giant can be summoned using spells such as summon monster and planar ally.
ECOLOGY
Environment Worldwound Rift
Organization solitary, gang (2–5), band (6–12 plus 35% noncombatants and 1 Witch or sorcerer of 1st–2nd level), raiding party (6–12 plus 1 Witch or sorcerer of 3rd–5th level, 2–5 Demonic Vermin (Campaign Setting: The Worldwound)), or tribe (20–30 plus 1 Witch or sorcerer of 6th–7th level; 1 Ranger or Antipaladin of 8th–9th level as king; and 10–20 Demonic Vermin)
Treasure Standard
Attack is probably the worst thing to be below-average given that this monster is a dedicated melee fighter. I'd suggest raising his strength to 30 to shore it up just a little bit more.
For Chaos Rift, you need to specify what action it is for the giant to open the rift (typically abilities such as this are standard actions) and the distance at which he can create the rift.
You don't need to specify that Rift Giants can be summoned through Planar Ally or Planar Binding, since that already comes as part of the package of being an extraplanar creature. For Summon Monster you'll need to specify which spell level is used to summon it. To be consistent with the existing Summon Monster list, it should probably be Summon Monster IX
Attack is probably the worst thing to be below-average given that this monster is a dedicated melee fighter. I'd suggest raising his strength to 30 to shore it up just a little bit more.
Increased the Strength to 30, which gives me an attack on 21 and average of 51. Which is got for a CR 12 Creature.
I've also added 2 more points of Natural arour, bring his AC to 24 (fairly close to the target 27)
Dasrak wrote:
For Chaos Rift, you need to specify what action it is for the giant to open the rift (typically abilities such as this are standard actions) and the distance at which he can create the rift.
Good point I forgot those. I've added the sentence: "As a Standard action, they can open a rift anywhere within a 150 feet radius,[...]"
Dasrak wrote:
You don't need to specify that Rift Giants can be summoned through Planar Ally or Planar Binding, since that already comes as part of the package of being an extraplanar creature. For Summon Monster you'll need to specify which spell level is used to summon it. To be consistent with the existing Summon Monster list, it should probably be Summon Monster IX
Actually it's not the summon monster spell but the summon ability (as per the Universal monster rules
Bestiary - Universal Monster rules wrote:
Summon (Sp) A creature with the summon ability can summon other specific creatures of its kind much as though casting a summon monster spell, but it usually has only a limited chance of success (as specified in the creature’s entry). Roll d%: On a failure, no creature answers the summons. Summoned creatures automatically return whence they came after 1 hour. A creature summoned in this way cannot use any spells or spell-like abilities that require material components costing more than 1 gp unless those
components are supplied, nor can it use its own summon ability for 1 hour. An appropriate spell level is given for each summoning ability for purposes of Will saves, caster level checks, and concentration checks. No experience points are awarded for defeating summoned monsters.
Format: 1/day—summon (level 4, 1 hezrou 35%); Location: Spell-Like Abilities.
I know it's not technically a specific creature "of its own kind" but the flavor was there.
Or I could go for a limited summon monster IV which could be used for 1 Babau(CR 6), 1d3 Shir (CR 4) or 1d4+1 Dretch (CR2). The problem here it that its specifically state the summon creature cannot summon other creature...which the summon ability doesn`t prevent.
Spoiler:
Rift Giant CR 12
XP 19,200 XP
CE Huge Fiendish Humanoid (Extraplanar, Giant)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +16
DEFENSE
AC 24, touch 11, flat-footed 21 (+6 armor, +1 shield, +3 Dex, -2 size +6 Natural armor)
hp 179 (17d8+102)
Fort +11, Ref +8, Will +15
Defensive Abilities Rock catching, Resist Cold 15, Fire 15, DR 10/Good, SR 17
OFFENSE
Speed 40’ (30' arounred)
Melee mwk Shotel +21/+16/+11 (2d6+10/x3) or 2 slam +20 (2d6+10)
Ranged Rock +12 (2d6+15)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks Rock Throwing (120’), Smite Good 1/day, Chaos Rift 3/day
Spell-Like Abilities
1/day — summon (level 3, 1 Babau 20% or 1d4+1 Shir 45%)
STATISTICS
Str 30, Dex 17, Con 22, Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 14
Base Atk +12; CMB +24; CMD 37
Feats Iron Will, Improve Initiative, Exotic Weapon proficiency (Shotel), Weapon Focus (Shotel), power Attack, vital Strike, Cleave, Great Cleave, Combat Reflex
Skills Acrobatics +12, climb +20, Intimidate+15, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +5, Knowledge (Geography) +5, Knowledge (Plane) +6, Perception +16, Stealth +12(+9 with armor), Survival +11 Racial Modifiers +8 Acrobatic, +4 Climb, +4 stealth (Mountainous Cliffside)
Languages Common, Giant, Abyssal
Equipment Masterwork Shotel, Masterwork Breastplate (Agile), Masterwork light steel shield
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Smite Good (su) Once per day, the Rift Giant may smite a good-aligned creature. As a swift action, the giant chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is good, the giant adds its Charisma bonus (if any) to attack rolls and gains a damage bonus equal to its HD against that foe. This effect persists until the target is dead or the creature rests
Chaos Rift (su) Thrice a day, a Rift giant can create a small rift to the Abyss to appear. As a Standard action, they can open a rift anywhere within a 150 feet radius, generating great turmoil as so much Chaos and Evil forces its way into the Material plane. Any creature within a 20 feet radius of the Rift will be affected as followed: On the first round, Good and Lawful creature will suffer 5d8 points of damage (10d6 points of damage in the case of a Good or Lawful outsider). Non-Good and Non-lawful creature suffers 3d8 points of damage. Chaotic Evil creatures are not affected by this effect. On all subsequent rounds, the damage is halved. A successful Will Save (DC 16) will reduce the effect by half. Chaotic Evil creatures are not affected by this effect. The Rift is unstable and remains open for 2d6+2 rounds before closing
ECOLOGY
Environment Worldwound Rift
Organization solitary, gang (2–5), band (6–12 plus 35% noncombatants and 1 Witch or sorcerer of 1st–2nd level), raiding party (6–12 plus 1 Witch or sorcerer of 3rd–5th level, 2–5 Demonic Vermin (Campaign Setting: The Worldwound)), or tribe (20–30 plus 1 Witch or sorcerer of 6th–7th level; 1 Ranger or Antipaladin of 8th–9th level as king; and 10–20 Demonic Vermin)
Treasure Standard
Background :
Slowly, with your help and Lady-J's help, which is greatly appricated, we're getting to a good CR 12 encounter
Rift Giant CR 12
XP 19,200 XP
CE Huge Fiendish Humanoid (Extraplanar, Giant)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +16
DEFENSE
AC 27, touch 14, flat-footed 19 (+6 armor, +1 shield, +6 Dex, -2 size +6 Natural armor)
hp 179 (17d8+102)
Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +15
Defensive Abilities Rock catching, Resist Cold 15, Fire 15, DR 10/Good, SR 17
OFFENSE
Speed 40’ (30' in armour)
Melee mwk Shotel +21/+16/+11 (2d6+10/x3) or 2 slam +18 (2d6+10) (edited the damage cuz i forgot when i uped the str)
Ranged Rock +15 (2d6+12)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks Rock Throwing (120’), Smite Good 1/day, Chaos Rift 3/day
Spell-Like Abilities
1/day — summon (level 3, 1 Babau 20% or 1d4+1 Shir 45%)
STATISTICS
Str 30, Dex 22, Con 22, Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 14
Base Atk +12; CMB +24; CMD 40
Feats Iron Will, Improve Initiative, Exotic Weapon proficiency (Shotel), Weapon Focus (Shotel), power Attack, vital Strike, Cleave, Great Cleave, Combat Reflex
Skills Acrobatics +15, climb +20, Intimidate+15, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +5, Knowledge (Geography) +5, Knowledge (Plane) +6, Perception +16, Stealth +15(+12 with armor), Survival +11 Racial Modifiers +8 Acrobatic, +4 Climb, +4 stealth (Mountainous Cliffside)
Languages Common, Giant, Abyssal
Equipment Masterwork Shotel, Masterwork Breastplate (Agile), Masterwork light steel shield
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Smite Good (su) Once per day, the Rift Giant may smite a good-aligned creature. As a swift action, the giant chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is good, the giant adds its Charisma bonus (if any) to attack rolls and gains a damage bonus equal to its HD against that foe. This effect persists until the target is dead or the creature rests
Chaos Rift (su) three times per day, a Rift giant can create a small rift to the Abyss to appear, generating great turmoil as so much Chaos and Evil forces its way into the Material plane. Any creature within a 20 feet radius of the Rift will be affected as followed: On the first round, Good and Lawful creature will suffer 5d8 points of damage (10d6 points of damage in the case of a Good or Lawful outsider). Non-Good and Non-lawful creature suffers 3d8 points of damage. Chaotic Evil creatures are not affected by this effect. On all subsequent rounds, the damage is halved. A successful Will Save (DC 24) will reduce the effect by half. Chaotic Evil creatures are not affected by this effect. The Rift is unstable and remains open for 2d6+2 rounds before closing and each round a creature starts their turn in or enters the rift they take an aditional 3d4+6 damage(will for half dc24) chaotic evil creatures are immune to this damage but the damage is otherwise pure chaose and bypasses all forums of energy resist/immunities and damage reduction.
The Rift Giant can be summoned using spells such as summon monster and planar ally.
ECOLOGY
Environment Worldwound Rift
Organization solitary, gang (2–5), band (6–12 plus 35% noncombatants and 1 Witch or sorcerer of 1st–2nd level), raiding party (6–12 plus 1 Witch or sorcerer of 3rd–5th level, 2–5 Demonic Vermin (Campaign Setting: The Worldwound)), or tribe (20–30 plus 1 Witch or sorcerer of 6th–7th level; 1 Ranger or Antipaladin of 8th–9th level as king; and 10–20 Demonic Vermin)
Treasure Standard
Rift Giant CR 12
XP 19,200 XP
CE Huge Fiendish Humanoid (Extraplanar, Giant)
Init +10; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +16
DEFENSE
AC 27, touch 14, flat-footed 19 (+6 armor, +1 shield, +6 Dex, -2 size +6 Natural armor)
Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +15
OFFENSE
Ranged Rock +15 (2d6+15)
STATISTICS
Str 30, Dex 22, Con 22, Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 14
Base Atk +12; CMB +24; CMD 40
Skills Acrobatics +15, climb +20, Intimidate+15, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +5, Knowledge (Geography) +5, Knowledge (Plane) +6, Perception +16, Stealth +15(+12 with armor), Survival +11 Racial Modifiers +8 Acrobatic, +4 Climb, +4 stealth (Mountainous Cliffside)
That could be an option...I wasn't planning such a high dexterity but it makes sense to neighbourhood dexterous in their environment, it makes them a lot more skilled and it deals with my defence issues.
Lady-J wrote:
try something like this
Chaos Rift (su) Thrice a day, a Rift giant can create a small rift to the Abyss to appear. As a Standard action, they can open a rift anywhere within a 150 feet radius, generating great turmoil as so much Chaos and Evil forces its way into the Material plane. Any creature within a 20 feet radius of the Rift will be affected as followed: On the first round, Good and Lawful creature will suffer 5d8 points of damage (10d6 points of damage in the case of a Good or Lawful outsider). Non-Good and Non-lawful creature suffers 3d8 points of damage. Chaotic Evil creatures are not affected by this effect. On all subsequent rounds, the damage is halved. A successful Will Save (DC 24) will reduce the effect by half. The Rift is unstable and remains open for 2d6+2 rounds before closing and each round a creature starts their turn in or enters the rift they take an aditional 3d4+6 damage(will for half dc24) chaotic evil creatures are immune to this damage but the damage is otherwise pure chaos and bypasses all forms of energy resist/immunities and damage reduction.
I feel that the DC might be too high. A CR 12 would have a primary ability DC of 21 and a secondary ability DC of 15. Since the effect is modeled after unholy blight which is a level 4 spell(thus my DC 16) my initial DC fits the spell level and is close to my secondary ability DC...I could maybe boost it to 18 thought,
The last sentence might be a bit overkill. By definition being a supernaturtle ability, you cannot use Spell Resistance. Damage reduction clearly states that "spells, spell-like ability and energy attacks ignores damage reduction." And for the Energy Resistance/Immunity bit: Chaos, Law, Good and Evil doesn'the seem to be an energy type, so it doesn't come into play.
The second ability is interesting. I was considering having the rift possibly acting as gate spell with having the possibility to bring people onto the Material plane or maybe instead of the effect you suggest pull people into the Abyss. But your idea works too and could be used some landmine to hinder charges and other similar ability.
The way I was seeing the rift was either as a "tear" in the air maybe starting a foot or two above the ground or a litteral rift know that ground. In both case being maybe 10 feet or so long and 5 feet or so wide.
Another thing I'm pondering. Should I give it a Mythic level (or 2) or not.
i was only following the formula for ability dcs 10+ 1/2hd +con mod as for the last sentence its more of a statement of the damage is unavoidable and cannot be reduced(except for passing the save) as there would be some players who would try and find a way around it. for mythic tiers keep in mind that 1 mythic tier is +2cr approximately so 2 mythic tiers would have it be 16cr instead of 12cr
I was going to suggest dropping Great Fortitude and giving it a +4 to Constitution instead. I like Iron Will, and maybe trade Great Cleave for Improved Iron Will?
What is a shotel? If you're going to go Exotic Weapon Proficiency, I would go with fauchard (reach, 18-20/x2, 1d10 (upped to 3d8 or 4d6 when re-sized to Huge)). Add Improved Critical, and it crits on 15-20. And Huge + Reach + Combat Reflexes can be a fun combo.
If you go with my fauchard idea, I would also give it a neat carrier effect on a crit, like a Will save or be teleported through a rift 1d6x10 feet in a random direction (1d12, 1-8 horizontal grenade spread, 9-12 straight up).
Also, what level do you expect your PCs to be when they fight the rift giant? And how many PCs? 4 10th level PCs vs 1 CR 12 giant might be fun, but 6 12th level PCs vs 3 CR 12 giants might be more fun.
Combat Reflexes is a nice way to increase the action economy of a big brute.
i was only following the formula for ability dcs 10+ 1/2hd +con mod
Well look at that, I missed that the first time around. Well a Con DC would be 24, a Wis DC would be 21 and a Cha DC would be 20. In the case of opening the Rift which would be more Fitting? I'm thinking maybe Wisdom as the giant is forcing his a rift to appear through shear Willpower. But I could see an argument done for a con orchard based DC.
Lady-J wrote:
as for the last sentence its more of a statement of the damage is unavoidable and cannot be reduced(except for passing the save) as there would be some players who would try and find a way around it.
True, some would, but aside from being CE, which you are unaffected, the rules are pretty clear that a save is the only way to avoid it. But I'la think about it.
Lady-J wrote:
for mythic tiers keep in mind that 1 mythic tier is +2cr approximately so 2 mythic tiers would have it be 16cr instead of 12cr
Actually, it'seems the other way around. 2MR = +1CR
Mythic Adventures wrote:
Step 4—Evaluate the monster at its final CR. Your monster's final CR is its initial CR + 1/2 its MR (round down; minimum 1). Use the Monster Statistics by CR table to evaluate whether the monster's abilities are appropriately challenging for its final CR. If a creature's mythic abilities complement its non-mythic abilities particularly well, that mythic creature may be too powerful for its final CR. If a creature's mythic abilities don't interact with its non-mythic abilities, that creature may be too weak for its final CR. If either of these situations occur, make adjustments to the creature so it better fits the intended CR.
I was going to suggest dropping Great Fortitude and giving it a +4 to Constitution instead. I like Iron Will, and maybe trade Great Cleave for Improved Iron Will?
Could be an option. Or maybe drop Vital Strike for Improved Iron Will or Improved Critical.
SmiloDan wrote:
What is a shotel? If you're going to go Exotic Weapon Proficiency, I would go with fauchard (reach, 18-20/x2, 1d10 (upped to 3d8 or 4d6 when re-sized to Huge)). Add Improved Critical, and it crits on 15-20. And Huge + Reach + Combat Reflexes can be a fun combo.
If you go with my fauchard idea, I would also give it a neat carrier effect on a crit, like a Will save or be teleported through a rift 1d6x10 feet in a random direction (1d12, 1-8 horizontal grenade spread, 9-12 straight up).
Actually Shotel is a Hooked sword (exotic weapon) from ultimate weapon from Abyssinia (Ancient Ethiopia), it's a fun sword, historically built to bypass shields and gamewise it gives the owner a +1 to hit if the opponent has a shield.
Hmm, come to think about it, I've only applied the large weapon upgrade once (d8 to 2d6). As it is a huge weapon should I run it a second time (2d6 to 4d6)??
I'very considered the polearm, but decided otherwise, preferring a close range weapon. The teleported effect is intriguing.
SmiloDan wrote:
Also, what level do you expect your PCs to be when they fight the rift giant? And how many PCs? 4 10th level PCs vs 1 CR 12 giant might be fun, but 6 12th level PCs vs 3 CR 12 giants might be more fun.
A group of PC should run into them in group somewhere between 3 to 6 with cohort.
1d8 to 2d6 to 3d6 (or 2d8) is how it normally goes when a weapon get Huge-ified. With Vital Strike, it would be 6d6+ or 4d8+ on the first round when the giants charge into melee, so I would keep Vital Strike. Great Cleave might be less useful, unless a lot of PCs surround one of the giants. Cleave should be good enough....
Do your PCs use a lot of shields? Can the hooks be used for tripping and disarming and other fun tricks?
i was only following the formula for ability dcs 10+ 1/2hd +con mod
Well look at that, I missed that the first time around. Well a Con DC would be 24, a Wis DC would be 21 and a Cha DC would be 20. In the case of opening the Rift which would be more Fitting? I'm thinking maybe Wisdom as the giant is forcing his a rift to appear through shear Willpower. But I could see an argument done for a con orchard based DC.
all monster abilities are con based dcs(or cha for undead)
Andre Roy wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
for mythic tiers keep in mind that 1 mythic tier is +2cr approximately so 2 mythic tiers would have it be 16cr instead of 12cr
Actually, it'seems the other way around. 2MR = +1CR
ill keep that in mind then one of the dms ive played with told me it was 1mr=2cr so ill have to let him know
Hmm, come to think about it, I've only applied the large weapon upgrade once (d8 to 2d6). As it is a huge weapon should I run it a second time (2d6 to 4d6)?
2d6 goes to 3d6 if you plan on giving them an impact weapon(permanent leaded blades) it would then go to 4d6 however most giants tend to use 2h weapons to get the most use out of their massive strength so a huge greatsword would do 4d6 or 6d6 with the impact quality so i would actually drop the shield and boost the natural armor by another 1
So made a minor adjustment, realizing the weapon was not doing the proper damage output. I did not increase his dexterity (at least not yet).
Now if all hits, the damage average is 63 well above the CR 12 (55) or CR 13 (60) average output.
Basically for a CR12 character his:
- Damage and HP are well above average;
- His AC, Reflex Save and attack are a few points below average (but withing range in the case of the Attack);
- His other saves and ability DC are on par.
I'm still considering maybe giving it 2 Mythic level. This would give him as a result:
- Subtype (Mythic)
- +2 Natural Armor, +16 HP, DR 10/Epic, +2 SR,
- Mythic power (su) (2/day, surge +1d6),
- Ability Increase: +2 (probably dex),
- 1 Mythic feat (probably Mythic Cleave),
- 3 mythic abilities:
- +1 CR
- Mythic Ability: Powerful Blow (Ex) (slam); Recuperation (Ex); Block Attacks (Ex).
Or I could keep this as an optional upgrade.
Spoiler:
Rift Giant CR 12
XP 19,200 XP
CE Huge Fiendish Humanoid (Extraplanar, Giant)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +16
DEFENSE
AC 24, touch 11, flat-footed 21 (+6 armor, +1 shield, +3 Dex, -2 size +6 Natural armor)
hp 179 (17d8+102)
Fort +11, Ref +8, Will +15
Defensive Abilities Rock catching, Resist Cold 15, Fire 15, DR 10/Good, SR 17
OFFENSE
Speed 40’ (30' arounred)
Melee mwk Shotel +21/+16/+11 (3d6+10/x3) or 2 slam +20 (2d6+10)
Ranged Rock +12 (2d6+15)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks Rock Throwing (120’), Smite Good 1/day, Chaos Rift 3/day
Spell-Like Abilities
1/day — summon (level 3, 1 Babau 20% or 1d4+1 Shir 45%)
STATISTICS
Str 30, Dex 17, Con 22, Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 14
Base Atk +12; CMB +24; CMD 37
Feats Iron Will, Improve Initiative, Exotic Weapon proficiency (Shotel), Weapon Focus (Shotel), power Attack, vital Strike, Cleave, Great Cleave, Combat Reflex
Skills Acrobatics +12, climb +20, Intimidate+15, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +5, Knowledge (Geography) +5, Knowledge (Plane) +6, Perception +16, Stealth +12(+9 with armor), Survival +11 Racial Modifiers +8 Acrobatic, +4 Climb, +4 stealth (Mountainous Cliffside)
Languages Common, Giant, Abyssal
Equipment Masterwork Shotel, Masterwork Breastplate (Agile), Masterwork light steel shield
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Smite Good (su) Once per day, the Rift Giant may smite a good-aligned creature. As a swift action, the giant chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is good, the giant adds its Charisma bonus (if any) to attack rolls and gains a damage bonus equal to its HD against that foe. This effect persists until the target is dead or the creature rests
Chaos Rift (su) Thrice a day, a Rift giant can create a small rift to the Abyss to appear. As a Standard action, they can open a rift anywhere within a 150 feet radius, generating great turmoil as so much Chaos and Evil forces its way into the Material plane. Any creature within a 20 feet radius of the Rift will be affected as followed: On the first round, Good and Lawful creature will suffer 5d8 points of damage (10d6 points of damage in the case of a Good or Lawful outsider). Non-Good and Non-lawful creature suffers 3d8 points of damage. Chaotic Evil creatures are not affected by this effect. On all subsequent rounds, the damage is halved. A successful Will Save (DC 21) will reduce the effect by half. Chaotic Evil creatures are not affected by this effect. The Rift is unstable and remains open for 2d6+2 rounds before closing
ECOLOGY
Environment Worldwound Rift
Organization solitary, gang (2–5), band (6–12 plus 35% noncombatants and 1 Witch or sorcerer of 1st–2nd level), raiding party (6–12 plus 1 Witch or sorcerer of 3rd–5th level, 2–5 Demonic Vermin (Campaign Setting: The Worldwound)), or tribe (20–30 plus 1 Witch or sorcerer of 6th–7th level; 1 Ranger or Antipaladin of 8th–9th level as king; and 10–20 Demonic Vermin)
Treasure Standard
Background :
SmiloDan wrote:
Cool.
1d8 to 2d6 to 3d6 (or 2d8) is how it normally goes when a weapon get Huge-ified. With Vital Strike, it would be 6d6+ or 4d8+ on the first round when the giants charge into melee, so I would keep Vital Strike. Great Cleave might be less useful, unless a lot of PCs surround one of the giants. Cleave should be good enough....
Do your PCs use a lot of shields? Can the hooks be used for tripping and disarming and other fun tricks?
They come often enough to be worth it. I'll keep that in mind for the Feat.
Lady-J wrote:
2d6 goes to 3d6 if you plan on giving them an impact weapon(permanent leaded blades) it would then go to 4d6 however most giants tend to use 2h weapons to get the most use out of their massive strength so a huge greatsword would do 4d6 or 6d6 with the impact quality so i would actually drop the shield and boost the natural armor by another 1
i would drop cleave/greater cleave and take the next vital strike feat and dodge with mythic vital strike :)
I think it is indeed a better option as Cleave/great cleave needs many opponent to be adjescant to be effective.
Change done (which increase my AC to 25 which is pretty good as is).
SmiloDan wrote:
Low AC, high HP monsters can be fun. PCs like to hit. And at higher levels, it's fun when you hit with all of your iterative attacks.
So I think you're doing a good job! :-D
True, but I don`t want them to be a cakewalk either, they need to present some challenge to be interesting (ok a gand of 2-5, or a raiding of 8 to 13 (including the Sorceror or witch leader) and the 2-5 demonic vermin should do the trick).
I think, at the core it's a good solid DC 12 monster (I don't think it's a DC 11 or lower monster now, but would it qualify as DC 13 monster?). There are a couple point I'd like to tweak
1) The Spell-like ability: Do I keep the current summon that uses the Monster Universal Rules (despite the fact it is not of the same time) and has a duration of 1 hour or do I give him instead a limited summon monster IV (with a CL 9) that only allow him to summon 3 type of Demons (Babau DC 6, Shir DC 4 or Dretch DC2) but that allow them to summon other Demons (unlike restriction in the spell description)...and maybe increase the Duration to 2eounds per CL.?
1a)Do I expend the list to allow the summoning of any DC 6 or lower Demons?
2) Chaos rift: Do I keep it as is: DC 24 provoke full damange to lawful/good character at 1st level, adversely affect Non Good and Non lawful creature, doesn`t affect CE creature. Half-damage for the rest of the duration of the rift. REflex save allowed for 1"2 damage.
or do I add:
2a) Lady-J's secondary effect "and each round a creature starts their turn in or enters the rift they take an aditional 3d4+6 damage(will for half dc24) chaotic evil creatures are immune to this damage."
2b) A Gate effect in which each round there`s a X% chance ( I'm considering relatively low 15 or 20%) an unbinded Demon walks trough (DM choise or table to be provided).
3) Do I add SmiloDan's special effect to the Shotel "I would also give it a neat carrier effect on a crit, like a Will save or be teleported through a rift 1d6x10 feet in a random direction (1d12, 1-8 horizontal grenade spread, 9-12 straight up)." or leave the SHotel as is.
4) Do I built in the Mythic levels with the core monster, or just put them after the description for GM who which ot use them in Wrath of the Righteous AP or in other Mythic Games?
As A recap, I would give him:
- 2 Mythic levels;
- add Subtype (Mythic);
- add +2 Natural Armor, +16 HP, DR 10/Epic, +2 SR,
- add Mythic power (su) (2/day, surge +1d6),
- add Ability Increase: +2 Dex
- add 1 Mythic feat (Mythic) Vital Strike,
- add 3 mythic abilities: Powerful Blow (Ex) (slam); Recuperation (Ex); Block Attacks (Ex)
- add +1 CR.
i think you should use the summon ability but make it summon a custom "rift" minion im thinking something similar to malzahar's voidlings from league of legends the rift is fine at 5d8 for LG(10d6 for LG outsiders) 3d8 for non LG non CE and 0 dmg to CE but should be a will save for half not a reflex as it would be more like defending your mind from the rifts chaotic energies than oops gata avoid that rift energy don't have the rift summon any extra things tho that's what the summon ability is for give their attacks with all types of weapons dimension locked and grant them immovable as well i can help you design the voidlings too if you want
dimension locked (Su)
giant attack; save Fort DC 24; effect dimensional anchoring. A creature affected by this curse cannot utilize extradimensional travel such as teleport, dimention door,ect as if it were under the effect of a dimensional anchor spell. The save DC is Constitution-based effect lasts 6 rounds failing the save against this effect refreshes the duration.
Immovable (Ex)
Rift giant is immune to any extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural effect or spell that would teleport him or move him from his current location. Only major deities can affect him with such magic.
I leave for work soon (night shift), so I'll go over your answer quickly, but will come back again when I'll have more time.
Lady-J wrote:
i think you should use the summon ability but make it summon a custom "rift" minion im thinking something similar to malzahar's voidlings from league of legends
[...] i can help you design the voidlings too if you want
That's an option. I kind of like the idea of a low CR demon but I could maybe reskin an existant monster (either a vermin like a giant tarantula, ogre spider, Giant scorpion oran animal like a bat) as a rift minion.
I'm debating submitting the giant to Wayfinder #17...but maybe 2 bestiary submissions might be OK, even if they are interdependant.
I'll mull things over bit and might start on it on my next day off. I appreciate the offer to help and will defintely keep it in mind.
Lady-J wrote:
the rift is fine at 5d8 for LG(10d6 for LG outsiders) 3d8 for non LG non CE and 0 dmg to CE but should be a will save for half not a reflex as it would be more like defending your mind from the rifts chaotic energies than oops gata avoid that rift energy don't have the rift summon any extra things tho that's what the summon ability is for
So no secondary ability (not even the one you had initially suggested)?
I agree that a Will save makes more sense as the buffering is more metaphysical.
Lady-J wrote:
give their attacks with all types of weapons dimension locked
dimension locked (Su)
giant attack; save Fort DC 24; effect dimensional anchoring. A creature affected by this curse cannot utilize extradimensional travel such as teleport, dimention door,ect as if it were under the effect of a dimensional anchor spell. The save DC is Constitution-based effect lasts 6 rounds failing the save against this effect refreshes the duration.
So a kind of "at will" special attack: Where a struck opponent cannot escape through extradimensional Mean?
And it would be specific to the giant, not the weapon. Correct?
Lady-J wrote:
and grant them immovable as well
Immovable (Ex)
Rift giant is immune to any extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural effect or spell that would teleport him or move him from his current location. Only major deities can affect him with such magic.
That's an interesting idea and would fit with the theme of the creature. So would that go under "SPECIAL DEFENCE" or "SPECIAL QUALITY"?
Now if I add all of those special abilities would it be enough to bump him to CR13 or would it still be a CR12 encounter by Itself?
the rift is fine at 5d8 for LG(10d6 for LG outsiders) 3d8 for non LG non CE and 0 dmg to CE but should be a will save for half not a reflex as it would be more like defending your mind from the rifts chaotic energies than oops gata avoid that rift energy don't have the rift summon any extra things tho that's what the summon ability is for
So no secondary ability (not even the one you had initially suggested)?
I agree that a Will save makes more sense as the buffering is more metaphysical.
srry yes to this secondary ability on the rift The Rift is unstable and remains open for 2d6+2 rounds before closing and each round a creature starts their turn in or enters the rift they take an additional 3d4+6 damage(will for half dc24) but i was saying no need to tie in the summons to it as the creature already has a summoning ability
Andre Roy wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
give their attacks with all types of weapons dimension locked
dimension locked (Su)
giant attack; save Fort DC 24; effect dimensional anchoring. A creature affected by this curse cannot utilize extradimensional travel such as teleport, dimention door,ect as if it were under the effect of a dimensional anchor spell. The save DC is Constitution-based effect lasts 6 rounds failing the save against this effect refreshes the duration.
So a kind of "at will" special attack: Where a struck opponent cannot escape through extradimensional Mean?
And it would be specific to the giant, not the weapon....
yes it would be giant specific but allow the giant to use the ability with any natural or manufactured weapon it poseses
Andre Roy wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
and grant them immovable as well
Immovable (Ex)
Rift giant is immune to any extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural effect or spell that would teleport him or move him from his current location. Only major deities can affect him with such magic.
That's an interesting idea and would fit with the theme of the creature. So would that go under "SPECIAL DEFENCE" or "SPECIAL QUALITY"?
Now if I add all of those special abilities would it be enough to bump him to CR13 or would it still be a CR12 encounter by Itself?
should be under special quality along with dimention locked, rift and summon and no it would stay 12cr
I like the idea of dimensionally locking opponents. Especially since they're Huge and have 15 feet of reach and work in groups, so teleporting in and out of melee to avoid AoOs will be a common tactic you can thwart.
Since the Shotel is extra good against shields, maybe make their critical carrier effect something that penalizes the opponent's AC?
Immovable is also a great ability for these guys.
Just be careful you're not making these too complex. Most PF battles only last 3 or 4 rounds, so you only need 2 or 3 attack options. Anything more is just wasted.
For example, for Chaos Rift, just have it cause 5d8 to LG, half to non-LG, and none to CE--and make LG outsiders vulnerable. That way, you're only rolling damage once, not 2 or 3 times, depending on creature type and alignment.
Rift giants already have 3 attacks per round plus summoned monsters. That's a lot to GM at once.
EDIT:
I've been playing 5th Edition lately, and the monster design is a lot more simplified than 3.5 or PF. So take my suggestions with a grain of salt.
Also, maybe add some Swift Action and/or Immediate Action stuff.
I've been playing 5th Edition lately, and the monster design is a lot more simplified than 3.5 or PF. So take my suggestions with a grain of salt.
Also, maybe add some Swift Action and/or Immediate Action stuff.
keep in mind in 5e monster abilities dont actually add to cr (for some weird reason) so if something has like a cr of 3 but you gave it an ability that did like 40d12 damage to a target on hit usable unlimited times per day it would still technically be a cr 3 creature
I've been playing 5th Edition lately, and the monster design is a lot more simplified than 3.5 or PF. So take my suggestions with a grain of salt.
Also, maybe add some Swift Action and/or Immediate Action stuff.
keep in mind in 5e monster abilities dont actually add to cr (for some weird reason) so if something has like a cr of 3 but you gave it an ability that did like 40d12 damage to a target on hit usable unlimited times per day it would still technically be a cr 3 creature
Well, in the DMG, there is a formula used to determine CR, half of which is based on damage, so that 40d12 damage would be taken into account.
But a lot of additional abilities don't seem to affect "official" CRs, like flight, maybe magic resistance, and many "carrier effects" on attacks, like pushing opponents back, grappling, tripping, etc.
I just ran a party of six level 1 PCs through a homebrew dungeon, with a mix of MM, Tome of Beasts, and homebrew monsters. They got real close to level 3. Anyways, the guidelines found in the DMG don't seem to be followed too often in the MM.
But a lot of it seems to be an art, and very little of it seems to be a science.
Just be careful you're not making these too complex. Most PF battles only last 3 or 4 rounds, so you only need 2 or 3 attack options. Anything more is just wasted.
I think this will be it, the Rift ability, Summon, unmovable and the Dimention anchor will be more then enough special abilities to go with his feats and regular attack...especially if I add the Mythic stuff on top of it.
SmiloDan wrote:
Also, maybe add some Swift Action and/or Immediate Action stuff.
Can't really think of anything here though. Any suggestions.
For the summon, I've been thinking and came up with a rough time draft for the "Riftling" a 6 legged giant lizard (think gecko and monitor hybrid) with sky flaps between high legs to glide/soar (like a sugar glider/flying squirrel).
I'm thinking CR6ish, with a diseased bite, 2 claw attack (maybe 4), and rake ( 4 or 2 claw, depending on primary claw). Maybe a scorpion-like stinger with poison. Very likely Pounce (dropping from above) and grapple ability.
Living on a Clift side, the gecko toe-pads and gliding ability make sense, multiple leg for better grip too. And the Pouce/grapple/rake make sense as hunting strategy.
I would try to make the summonling relatively simple to run. Maybe 1 big attack instead of 5 or 6 smaller attacks? I would suggest poison instead of disease--most of the time, diseases get cured before they really affect the PCs. In fact, I would suggest maybe a special entropy attack that only goes off once, instead of tracking poison for 4 or 6 rounds.
For example: Entropopositor: The scorpion-like tail injects pure chaos into its victims. 6d6 + Make a Fort Save or teleport 10 feet in a random direction and suffer 2d12 damage, half damage and no teleporting on a successful save. Maybe give it Weapon Focus and the Flanking Teamwork feat for additional accuracy?
Another option is for the summoning to conjure 1d3 Demon-Infused vermin (probably giant scorpions or giant spiders based) and have the Riftling or Rift lizard accompanied the giant as a guard/attack beast (like Hell Hounds do for Fire giant).
Maybe keep the design, but give them a bite and a stinger attack and maybe keep the Grapple/Rake and Pounce ability.
I like the idea of Weapon focus and Flanking Teamwork feat.
My main concern is that the combat doesn't grind down. If you have 3 to 6 giants that make 3 attacks per round PLUS pets that get multiple attacks, you're going to be making 20 to 30 attacks each round.
My main concern is that the combat doesn't grind down. If you have 3 to 6 giants that make 3 attacks per round PLUS pets that get multiple attacks, you're going to be making 20 to 30 attacks each round.
the giants are only going to be making 1 attack a round because of vital strike and mythic vital strike
I can see the concern here, and we don`t want to slow down combat too much.
The way I see it, normally a party should run into a single, a pair of or a gang of (2 to 5) giants plus whatever Demon-infused vermins they can summon (I'm considering either 1 or 1d3 creatures with a 45% chance at best)...tough but not too, too bad and should still flow fairly well and quickly enough.
Bigger sized group like the Band, Raiding party or Tribe (where the pets would come in) I see those more as fix-location or pre-plan encounter where PC would have enough warning to either avoid them or plan for the fight...or where allies are available in the case of a raiding party...so it's a long fight, but it's planned to be such an encounter.
Under this vision, PC would normally encounter the lizard either alone or in small groups(3-9) along the cliff side without the giants which is why I don`t see having 2 attacks (a bite and tail attack) or more, if I stick closer to the original vision as being too big a concern in bogging combat downbecause by the time PC can reach the Rift, they should be powerful wnough to deal with a CR6ish lizard with multiple attacks fairly quickly.
I admit, I could be wrong here.
Lady-J wrote:
give me a few hours and i have a guard lizard and a riftling built with special abilities and what not
Thank you, that would be greatly appreciated.
--------------------------------------------
As mentioned earlier, the Rift Giant might be submitted as a bestiary article to Wayfinder #17. As I don't want to impose upon anyone, I might switch the Summon/pet to Demon-infused vermin in that case. I would not feel right to take credit for the Lizard and riftling nor would I want to run the risk of having one of the submission (yours or mine) approuved and the other one rejected (for whatever reasons).
no idea if the abilities given will keep them at cr6 but here you go
riftling cr 6
exp 2400
tiny outsider
init +7 senses dark vision 60 feet
defense
ac 19 touch 17 flat foot 12 (+6 dex +2 shield +1 size)
hp 68(9d10+18)
fort 5, ref +12, will +9
fire, acid, electricity, cold sonic resist 5, dr 2/-
offense
speed 50 (climb speed 25)
melee bite +16 1d3+1+cursed bite four claws +16 1d2+1 and rend 2d2+2
pounce
statistics
str 12, dex 22, con 14, int 6, wis 16, cha 14
bab +9,cmb +9, cmd 25 (32 vs trip)
feats weapon finesse, improved initiative, run, combat reflexes, vital strike
skills climb +13, knowledge arcana +6, knowledge plains +6, perception 15+, perform dance 14+,stealth +17, swim +5; racial bonuses +8 climb +4 perform dance +2 stealth
abilities
carapace
+2 shield bonus to ac and immunity to magic missile
cursed bite
when a riftling hits a creature with its bite attack it inflicts a curse as per the bestow curse spell dc 16 will negates
mind link
riftlings can communicate to other riftlings telepathically range 300feet they can also help bolster each others mental defenses riftlings get a +1 to will saves for each riftling with in 30 feet of them
tiny frame big ambitions
although riftlings are tiny in size they count as if they were small for the purposes of size bonuses and reach however still take up a square's area like a tiny creature
Those are cool little creature and complement the giant well. It's a shame the number of features is limited, there are a few teamwork feat that would have been great here, in particular Outflank .
For the Rift ability, I was considering clarifying the size: it would cover a maximum of 4 (5'x5') square and could be position in anyway the GM wants (must be adjacent though). So you could basically position them like echo of the Tetris block shape. This would help figure out the space occupied for the secondary ability.
have it be 4x6 so its more rifty and less boxlike and i sorta forgot about team work feats swap the run feat with outflank i also forgot to chance the initiative on the riftling so remember to fix that.
True, a 4x6 (square) area could work or maybe slightly smaller 3x5 area (the physical effect is still felt over a 20 feet radius though). I was thinking 4 (or even 6) 5'x5' squares and allow the GM to customize the shape of the Rift (with the caveat that each block must be adjacent) that way each rift is "randomized" and kept the player on their toes but still easily contained in a 20' radius area of effect.
I'll keep thone 2 changes/adjustment in mind when I'll port them over.
Here is the Final version (Well minor language and clarifcation tweak possible)
Spoiler:
This towering giant has black glistening chitin-plated skin and vestigial demonic features like small horns, bone-spurs, fangs, etc. Rift Giant CR 12
XP 19,200 XP
CE Huge Fiendish Humanoid (Extraplanar, Giant)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +16
DEFENSE
AC 25, touch 11, flat-footed 22 (+6 armor, +1 shield, +3 Dex (limited by armor from +4), -2 size, +6 Natural armor, +1 Dodge)
hp 179 (17d8+102)
Fort +11, Ref +8, Will +15
Defensive Abilities Rock catching, Resist Cold 15, Fire 15, DR 10/Good, SR 17
OFFENSE
Speed 40’ (30’ armoured)
Melee mwk Shotel +21/+16/+11 (3d6+10/x3) or 2 slam +20 (2d6+10)
Ranged Rock +12 (2d6+15)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks Rock Throwing (120’), Smite Good 1/day,
Spell-Like Abilities
1/day — summon (level 6 1d4+1 Riftling 45%)
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Smite Good (su) Once per day, the Rift giant may smite a good-aligned creature. As a swift action, the giant chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is good, the giant adds its Charisma bonus (if any) to attack rolls and gains a damage bonus equal to its HD against that foe. This effect persists until the target is dead or the creature rests
Chaos Rift (su) Three times a day, a Rift giant can create a small 8 by 23 feet rift to the Abyss to appear. As a Standard action, they can open a rift anywhere within a 150 feet radius, generating great turmoil as so much Chaos and Evil forces its way into the Material plane. Any creature within 20 feet radius of the Rift will be affected as followed: On the first round, a lawful creature will suffer 5d8 points of damage (10d6 points of damage in the case of lawful good outsider). Chaotic Evil creatures are not affected by this effect. All other creatures will suffer 3d8 points of Damage. On all subsequent rounds, the damage is halved. A successful Will Save (DC 24) will reduce the effect by half. The Rift is unstable and remains open for 2d6+2 rounds before closing and each round a non-Chaotic Evil creature starts their turn in or enters the rift, they take an additional 3d4+6 damage (will for half DC24).
Dimension Locked (Su) When the Rift giant attacks, whether with natural or manufactured weapon, his opponent must make a Fort save (DC 24) to avoid a dimensional anchoring effect. A creature affected by this curse cannot utilize extradimensional travel such as teleport, dimension door, etc. as if it were under the effect of a dimensional anchor spell. The effect lasts 6 rounds and failing the save against this effect refreshes the duration.
Unmovable (Ex) Rift giant is immune to any extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural effect or spell that would teleport him or move him from his current location. Only major deities can affect him with such magic.
ECOLOGY
Environment Worldwound Rift
Organization solitary, gang (2–5), band (7–12 plus 35% noncombatants and 1 Witch or sorcerer of 1st–2nd level), raiding party (7–12 plus 1 Witch or sorcerer of 3rd–5th level, 2–5 Rift lizards or tribe (21–30 plus 1-3 Witch or sorcerer of 6th–7th level; 1 Ranger or Antipaladin of 8th–9th level as king; and 11–20 Rift Lizards, plus 45% noncombatants).
Treasure Standard
Background:
Rift giants male are, in average, 19’ and average around 8500 pounds. A female rift giant tends to be a foot or two shorter and about 1000-1500 pound lighter. They can live up to 600 years. They usually wear soft leather clothing, chiselled breastplates ornate with demonic designs and a vicious looking shotel.
These vicious creatures love to cause pain and create new way to torture their victims. They will often use their environment to its full advantage in combat as well as in establishing their lairs in hard to access caves or on broad ledges.
Roughly 2 in every 7 Rift giants will have mythic ranks. A typical Mythic Rift giant will have the following changes:
Rift Giant CR 13/MR2
XP 25,600 XP
CE Huge Fiendish Humanoid (Extraplanar, Giant, Mythic)
Init 8
AC 27, flat-footed 24 (+6 armor, +1 shield, +3 Dex (limited by armor from +4), -2 size, +8 Natural armor, +1 Dodge)
hp 197 (17d8+118)
Ref +9,
Defensive AbilitiesDR 10/Good and Epic, SR 20, Block Attacks (Ex)
Ranged Rock +13 (2d6+15)
Special Attacks Mythic power (su) (2/day, surge +1d6),
Dex 19
CMD 38
Feats +Mythic Vital Strike
Skills Acrobatics +13, Stealth +13(+10 with armor)
SQ Recuperation (Ex), Powerful Blow (Ex) (slam)
Alphabetize the feats and languages.
Capitalize "Climb."
Change the range of Chaos Rift to 150 feet, not a 150 foot radius.
You might want to change the size of the rift to 10 by 25, especially since battle mats use 5 by 5 foot squares.
Actually, you might want clarify if the rift is a 10 by 25 rectangle or a 20 foot radius circle.
Also, I would standardize the damage of the Chaos Rift: 10d6 damage the first round to LG, half vs. non-LG, CE immune. 5d6 each round thereafter to LG, half vs. non-LG, CE immune. A LOT less dice rolling and numbers to keep track of.
Alphabetize the feats and languages.
Capitalize "Climb."
Quibbling is good. I'll implement those, it will help visually.
SmiloDan wrote:
Change the range of Chaos Rift to 150 feet, not a 150 foot radius.
Make it simpler indeed.
SmiloDan wrote:
You might want to change the size of the rift to 10 by 25, especially since battle mats use 5 by 5 foot squares.
Actually, you might want clarify if the rift is a 10 by 25 rectangle or a 20 foot radius circle.
The idea is to cover a physical area of 2x5 squares. I put 8'by 23' instead of 10' by 25' to give a 1 foot allowance around it (to either navigate or jump over 8' being a bit easier then 10'.
The 20 radius (from the center of the rift) is for the primary effect. That's how far from it that a being is affected by the buffering of Choasis and Evil energy.
The physical space covered by the rift is for the secondary effect here a being suffers extra damage if the start/enter one of those squaresas they really hit more intensely.
SmiloDan wrote:
Also, I would standardize the damage of the Chaos Rift: 10d6 damage the first round to LG, half vs. non-LG, CE immune. 5d6 each round thereafter to LG, half vs. non-LG, CE immune. A LOT less dice rolling and numbers to keep track of.
I might do this. Still like the idea that LG outsiders are particularly vulnerable and the extra damage. I'll work on the wording.
However it'summon pretty much the same as Unholy Blight spell. Maybe I could just reference to the spell instead.
SmiloDan wrote:
Maybe change Unmovable to Immovable.
Other than those, it looks pretty great. :-D
I Blame the fact that English is not my mother language. I was not aware of the nuance in the meaning oof those two words.
You can just have it cast unholy blight or treat LG outsiders as vulnerable to the chaotic evil damage. Damage vulnerability is already a Universal Monster Rule, so it should be easy to implement.
Spellcheck tells me unmovable and immovable are both valid options. :-)
