Grayflame Vs. Large Water Elemental

[Imakulata]

OK, so one of my PCs has a grayflame weapon and will be fighting a large water elemental soon. It hasn't come up yet but I'm sure it will so I'm getting a jump on it. I have a few questions regarding the issue. First how would one handle hitting a water elemental with grayflame with it's "Drench" ability? The damage dealt through grayflame is not fire damage but does come from a source of flame. If drench dispels grayflame does the divine damage still go through or does it nullify? On the other hand does Drench only work on fire it willingly touches or is it any flame it comes into contact with?

Grayflame: This weapon responds to channeled positive and negative energy. When the wielder spends a swift action to channel energy through the weapon, it ignites with a strange gray flame that sheds light as a torch, increases the weapon's enhancement bonus by +1, and deals +1d6 damage (as the divine power from flame strike) to creatures struck by the weapon. This flame lasts for 1 round for every d6 of damage or healing the channeling normally provides. When charged with positive energy, the flame is a silvery gray, good creatures are immune to the weapon's extra damage, and the weapon counts as a good and silver weapon for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. When charged with negative energy, the flame is an ashen gray, evil creatures are immune to the weapon's extra damage, and the weapon counts as an evil and cold iron weapon for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons.

Drench: The elemental's touch puts out non-magical flames of Large size or smaller. The creature can dispel magical fire it touches as dispel magic (caster level equals elemental's HD).

[Klorox]

the "flame" is powered by positive/negative energy, it is not elemental fire... it cannot be drenched by a water elemental nor do extra damage to creatures vulnerable to fire... it still damages an elemental normally, unless it happens to have the proper alignment.

[Diego Rossi]

The damage isn't in any way related to fire and it is magical.
Drench can dispel magical fires. Not magical flames.

And the "flame" in the item description is the flame of faith, not the flame of fire.

[Imakulata]

I understand that the damage isn't fire damage but the divine damage is caused as a product of the flame. By definition flame is fire so the water elemental has a chance to dispel it and without the flame there is no damage. This is the way I read everything. Is doesn't say anywhere that the fire must be elemental it says magical fire(again by definition flame is fire). I understand that it isn't going to be a sure thing but it makes sense that any type of fire has a chance of being dispelled.

[Imakulata]

Just to be clear I'm not being argumentative just stating my thought process on the matter.

[Garbage-Tier Waifu]

Ignore the fact that it is called a 'flame', because it takes the time to define it as something different and not quite a normal flame. It is a positive or negative energy effect that takes the form of a flame. It is also divine energy, as per flame strike's divine energy, and that would not count for Drench's dispel (though since the other half for flame strike is fire damage, it would count for Drench, but that is a separate situation)

[Drejk]

Imakulata wrote:

By definition flame is fire

By that reasoning the water elemental should be able to switch off divine magic and destroy paladins by hitting the cleric/paladin because it extinguished the flame of faith in their hearts. (it would also mean that companies around the world should start employing water elementals to drench out flame wars on their messageboards)

Appearance of flame does not equate to fire: continual flame appears as flame but does not have [fire] descriptor and thus is not (magical) fire and wouldn't be extinguished by this ability.

[Claxon]

Imakulata wrote:

I understand that the damage isn't fire damage but the divine damage is caused as a product of the flame. By definition flame is fire so the water elemental has a chance to dispel it and without the flame there is no damage. This is the way I read everything. Is doesn't say anywhere that the fire must be elemental it says magical fire(again by definition flame is fire). I understand that it isn't going to be a sure thing but it makes sense that any type of fire has a chance of being dispelled.

That's just not how it works though.

In this case "flame" is merely descriptive. It is not fire and and water has no effect. If it helps you, imagine that it's spiritual energy that just happens to have the shape of "flame" but isn't actually composed of "fire".

You're problem is you are incorrectly assuming fire = flame for a game where it's really not that simple.

[Imakulata]

ok so the words "ignites with a strange gray flame" mean nothing? I'm pretty sure the definition of the word ignite would be the same in pathfinder world as it is in our world "catch fire or cause to catch fire" The presence of the word ignite indicates a fire starts.

[Rysky]

That's flavor, not outright mechanics.

The Water Elemental puts things that are mechanically Fire, not things that are flavored as fire but aren't.

The "flame" is Positive or Negative energy, not Fire. The Water Elemental does nothing to it.

[Volvagnos]

I am in the same mind as everyone else it seems. The Flames are not real flames, but merely flavor. The words "ignites with a strange grey flame" could easily be "crackles with silver lightning", "bubbles forth an ashen caustic haze", or even "spreads confetti like you're in a parade."

Mechanically the sword is the same in all examples. All have the same effect duration and damage. None are affected by the elemental's ability.

[Diego Rossi]

The ignition of an engine set it on fire?

You are too focused on the narrow meaning of the term. Your greyflame sword "ignite" because if get an effect that resemble a flame in aspect and shed light. Like a everburning torch, a continual flame and so on.

If you had one of those fake fireplaces with an image of a fire, you think it will be affected by drench, beside the normal effect of drenching electrical equipement?