Awakened Animals CR Ajustments


Rules Questions


Does the awaken spell add a CR to an animal it awakens or is it's CR not affected?


It adds to CR.

Awaken wrote:

...

An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can't serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.
...

Bolding mine. I can't say how much it increases, but more HD should always be higher CR and changing to "magical beast" gives it more BAB and larger hit dice. On the monster creation chart, a magical beast is generally one or two CR higher than an animal with the same HD. There's likely other factors (native magic beasts probably also have other abilities) but just the pure BAB and HD size increase should increase the CR.

If you want a wild guess, I'd say it increase the CR by 2.


It depends. If this is an antagonist of the party and your calculating XP I'd eyeball how effective the increase was after the encounter. Or maybe I'd only give it a +1 CR to start and bump it to +2 if it was especially effective.

If it's an ally of the party, it's a spell effect and I wouldn't worry about it at all. Let them be a little more effective for a few adventures then the extra BAB and HP will start to lose impact. If absolutely necessary call it +1 and move on.


what about for a player? would playing an awakened animal increase the cr of the animal that's already taking away class levels to play as and what would its bonuses and penalties to ability scores be when your rolling?


Lady-J wrote:
what about for a player? would playing an awakened animal increase the cr of the animal that's already taking away class levels to play as and what would its bonuses and penalties to ability scores be when your rolling?

Again, it has to. Awaken adds 2 HD. Adding 2 HD has to be worth at least +1 CR, since even two levels of commoner (the worst possible choice for adding 2 HD) adds +1 CR. If it increases the CR of the base animal it increases the level adjustment (which they don't call that, but that's what it is).

An awakened animal doesn't roll for stats. It already has stats, plus whatever is rolled for intelligence and to add to charisma. If you're rolling for all stats they can't be an awakened animal. If you want to know how to convert a monster's ability bonuses to make a "0 HD" version of animals, that's a completely different thing. You assume their "rolled" numbers are all 10 or 11 and figure out the bonus from there (so a 17 is a +6 and a 12 is a +2 and so on). You'll also need to subtract the +1 every four HD (probably assume it's in Str or Con). Awaken translates to a base of 10.5 Int (so +0) and +2 Cha in addition to everything else.


Found it!
It is worth noting that changing it's type to magical beast does not change it's HD or BAB etc.

I knew when I read bobx3's post that this was the case, but could I find the blasted citation...


Bob Bob Bob wrote:
It adds to CR.
Awaken wrote:

...

An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can't serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.
...

Bolding mine. I can't say how much it increases, but more HD should always be higher CR and changing to "magical beast" gives it more BAB and larger hit dice. On the monster creation chart, a magical beast is generally one or two CR higher than an animal with the same HD. There's likely other factors (native magic beasts probably also have other abilities) but just the pure BAB and HD size increase should increase the CR.

If you want a wild guess, I'd say it increase the CR by 2.

I'm positive I've read something saying that the math (HD size & BAB) of an awakened animal does not change. Damned if I can find it now, though. Oh, there it is! Thanks dragonhunterq!

But the +2 HD is still worth +1 CR IMHO, and the extra intelligence another +1 if it gets a decent roll, so I guess +2 CR too.


Oh, that's a pretty old one too. So no HD or BAB change, just 2 HD, some Int (it's entirely possible it gains almost no benefit from this, but on average it gets +1 skill point), and some free Charisma (which also doesn't matter for most animals, but benefits are benefits). So yeah, at least +1 CR, up to +2 CR, but probably not more than that.


The Int thing isn't so much for the direct mechanical benefits as for the fact that it can now plot and plan and do, well, intelligent things as opposed to purely straightforward things. It's a far more dangerous adversary for PCs than its old self was.


Glad I wasn't the only one struggling to find it :)

I really struggle to see how 2 animal HD and maybe a couple of skill ranks are worth +2CR. Still, with most players it is easier to give them goodies than to take them away, so start at +2CR and reduce it to +1 if the character proves too weak.


so a gorilla would have a +2 str +6dex +2con -6int +2wis -4cha if it were to be a 0hit die race?


Gorilla should be +4 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, -8 Int, +2 Wis, -4 Cha. If you then want to make it medium, then it's -4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con to the stat adjustment (for +0 Str, +6 Dex, +2 Con, -8 Int, +2 Wis, -4 Cha). Awakened would add (on average) +2 Cha on top of everything, and change the Int to (again, on average) +0.

Liberty's Edge

FAQ wrote:


Awaken: Does changing the creature's type to "magical beast" affect its HD type, BAB, or other features? What about its 2 additional HD? How does training to wear barding relate to armor proficiency?

Only the animal's type changes to "magical beast"--it doesn't gain all the mathematical benefits for this type change (think of it as a "quick rules" version of adding a template to a creature).

The 2 HD it gains are d8s, just like its other animal HD.

An animal trained to wear barding can continue to do so without penalty once it is awakened. Once it's awakened, it can either spend a feat on armor proficiency or take class levels in a class that grants armor proficiency, just like any intelligent creature.

As I read it, you don't get the benefits of the type change. I.e. you don't get:

Magical Beast wrote:


d10 Hit Die.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (fast progression).
Good Fortitude and Reflex saves.
Skill points equal to 2 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for magical beasts: Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, Swim.

Traits: A magical beast possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).

Darkvision 60 feet.
Low-light vision.
Proficient with its natural weapons only.
Proficient with no armor.
Magical beasts breathe, eat, and sleep.

But you still get all the effects of the increase in HD, so higher BAB, better saves, a feat, skills, etc.

The FAQ say "it doesn't gain all the mathematical benefits for this type change", not "it don't get the benefit of the HD increase". Those are two different things.


No mathematical bonuses. HD stays d8's, no increased BAB, skill ranks or saves... all math. It would gain Low-light vision and Darkvision 60ft if it didn't have those already as those are not mathematical.

I had an issue with this myself and there is no definitive method of determining the awoken animal's CR. I used the tables provided in the monster creation section to figure it out. I too wanted to play as my awoken animal which was a Large Tyrannosaurus... It's tough figuring out a CR for an animal companion. Lets say the AC had 5HD, plus 2 from Awaken makes 7, in the Animal row it says 7HD is a CR 5, so use that... unless they have not advanced yet then go one less. Then you would use the rules for playing as a Monstrous PC, where their CR counts as their current level (with racial HD) and you continue leveling from that CR into Heroic Classes. Like with a Minotaur... it has 6 HD but it's a CR 4. You would be considered a 4th level character with 6 racial HD. When you reach level 5 you gain a level in a Heroic class, let's say Barbarian. Minotaur 4/Barbarian 1.

So as another example, 9th level Druid with an animal companion EDL 9 (8HD). Awaken makes 10HD, Monster Creation says Animal HD10 as an average is CR7. So using said awoken animal as a PC you start at 7th level Awoken Animal(10 racial HD), with the minimal amount of Exp to be a 7th level character, and you play from there.

These aren't any official rules that I found anywhere (as there are none that cover this) but it's simple to use and fits well. If you end up with HD that fall in between recommended CR's I would use the lower CR.

Liberty's Edge

The awakened animal don't exchange his "Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (medium progression)." with the magical beast BAB progression "Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (fast progression).", but it get the normal effect on adding 2 HD. Depending on the total HD that can be a +1 or +2 to the old BAB.

Same thing for the skills, it retain its 2 skill point/level and : Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim. (same as a magical beast, BTW). But it get the 4 skill points + 2x intelligence modifier for the 2 extra HD.

The FAQ could benefit from a clarification about that, but it acceptably clear.

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