So here is the situation.
I’m the DM.
My homebrew campaign is at 16th level.
The PCs are operatives of an isolated legion under siege from several hostile groups. They know beyond a doubt that there is at least one spy in their midst. Their problem is that every strategy they’ve used to find him has led nowhere.
This spy has been in their midst somewhere between 5 to 10 years. His primary mission is to observe and report when he can. He is disguised as a servant to a high level officer. Even with being disguised as a different race, his disguise check has given him access to almost every area, though he cannot attend secret planning meetings.
He’s a Rogue 10/ Master Spy 10. I’ve ruled that divination spells are not locating him due to his abilities.
How would you locate him? I’m thinking that they need to bait him with a trap, but want to see if I’m missing something more obvious.
Here’s a link to his stats.
Divination failing - does that apply to Commune? Even the capstone says that deities can bypass it, and Commune talks to them.
Put people in antimagic fields and make them read Truecolor Dyes.
Sparring matches (for "training") and see if anyone is throwing the fight or better than they should be.
Hmm... Well, I'm thoroughly interested in making a Master Spy myself. So, let's see what we can do...
1) As james014Aura does say, one quick workaround is to get a powerful creature or deity's help. Commune, Calling an outsider, doing some religious service, or using an artifact are all means a GM can put forth to give their players a little extra help. If you ever actually manage to corner a Master Spy in a single area, some outsiders and the higher tier metallic dragons can straight up destroy that measly +27 bluff with their sense motive checks of +40 or more. For best and absolute results, you're probably going to want to avoid magical detection, Except for...
2) Finding the deceased. The single easiest way to track down a Master Spy when you know where he/she's immediately been is to discover their victims. Psychic magic and divinations that help you track down a Master Spy's victim will inevitably draw you closer to the spy itself while avoiding the absolute immunity they personally have to such divination. If a Master Spy is clever, they'll usually keep their victim alive and hidden while posing as them to avoid this... The trick is trying to find a spell/effect that will work only if the victim is not alive.
3) Quiz every suspect about one another and expertise. This won't give you a definite result, but it's an easy way to put the pressure on a Master Spy. Their superficial knowledge is usually not enough to counter continued questioning, especially if you're dealing with a very specialized crowd with high Knowledge(Nobility) and Profession checks. This technique really requires some hard planning on the players' part, and it's usually only to force the Master Spy to make a mistake you can detect. It also helps if you...
4) Intimidate the f*dge out of them. Master Spies have minds protected against divination and enchantment, but not fear! Straight intimidation checks are best, but you can attempt a spell as well. If they have their Mind Blank up, you can often single them out because your divination effects fail immediately. If it's down, they're not getting that nifty bonus against fear. This one depends on how the GM handles a coerced/influenced target; If they're still capable of bluffing through the fear, it's only minor help to other techniques.
5) Test their combat skills. You can fake knowledge, but you can't fake battle. If the Master Spy's disguise happens to be in a well-trained, battle-ready individual like a soldier, you can possibly discern them by their tactics in battle. Profession(soldier) will only take you so far, before it becomes obvious you don't possess team tactics (teamwork feats) or combat techniques other than feinting. Having a Hunch (DC 20 Sense Motive) is an easy way to see through a disguised soldier or officer. This will at least cut down your suspects.
6) The Bait. As you suggested, bait is another way to get through the disguise. In this case, it seems your players know that the spy's purpose is to be a mole. Bluffing (especially if you're a bard with glibness) is a decent way to spread a rumor and catch the spy's attention, even if they can't do it as well as a rogue rumourmonger. Of course, this is also the easiest method to foil; a smart spy would simply report the rumor, and wait for the opportunity to investigate without risk, especially if they've been in that position for years. Methods above might help put on some pressure.
7) Scent. You can detect and look as someone all you like, but if you're inherently a different race, there's only so much a disguise can do against a sensitive nose. This is conditional upon you knowing the Spy's original race. A spy that manages to eliminate their scent is still differentiated from others by having No scent. Setting a trap that uses a scent is also an effective method, if you can do it secretly.
8) Counterspy. Forget the spy itself, look for contacts, signs of magic, or whatever network they're using to get information Out of the area. Interrogating a different enemy will likely be far easier than discovering the spy. Throwing a wrench into their immediate plan or network will at least force the spy into a less favorable position or a backup plan.
That's all I can think of offhand... There are probably more specialized spells or creatures that can help.
Thanks for all the feedback. This is helpful.
Part of their challenge is that their also dealing with:
* Several unfriendly armies which need to be kept at bay
* Political enemies who are undermining some efforts
* Shoring up support from allies
* the fact that the legion has 1000 soldiers, and almost as much in support staff. Interviews, combats, or individual tests aren't really feasible.
Regarding commune, the results on that spell have been unclear so far. Campaign wise, the gods of this world don't intervene too much without consequences from opposing gods. Now, one more level and their clerics will have access to Gate. If they use that spell correctly, I'd say they will have their spy.
I'm hoping they come up with a creative bait. So far they have been having secret meetings, feeding false information, and doing something completely different from the plans they've let slip.
Regarding scent, would that be a complete give away or just a penalty to the disguise check? I'm leaning toward a penalty. If someone can create a disguise that is good enough to fool intimate relationships, they should know how to counter scent.
Wait... the PCs know that he's masquerading as some servant of a specific lord's household?
Get all the servants in one room and (close your sweet eyes, Virginia!) kill them all. I'm betting the masterful disguise will work much less effectively when he's dead.
Alternatively, planting false information in specific areas can help narrow down the leak. But a clever spy can also use that against you once he figures out what's going on. Regardless of what you think you find, you'll never be sure.
No, sorry, to be clear, the PC's only know that there is a spy somewhere in an army that is occupying a massive castle. The legion consists of about 1,000 and the support is probably just as much. The castle's population rotates frequently as the army patrols a very large area, so at any given time there's probably 1,000 in the castle complex. They know the enemy has been gaining access to some important information, troop movements especially. They're sure that the spy is not in their inner circle of commanders (yet). They do know the enemy has a secret organization skilled in the ability to assume any disguise, even that of close friends. They also suspect that this enemy could be changing identities fairly often, so today's chambermaid may be the spy, but tomorrow it could be the legionnaire guarding the gate.
Well, there's also the fact that killing all your support staff isn't going to be helpful either. :)
Hmmm. Sounds similar to the dilemma faced on the recent Shanarra series. A shapechanging spy who can read minds in order to perfectly mimic personalities and mannerisms is scary. Even worse if he or she can also shrug off mind-reading magics such as the various detect thoughts type spells.
Sounds like the PCs need to devise a very very clever honey trap - an intelligence-collecting opportunity so good that the master spy simly can't pass it up.
I can see many great sessions going into this spy catching effort.
Since you mentioned that he is a high level servant to an officer that will limit the number of suspects. Have each suspect to learn a different piece of information. Then simply track which piece of information is used. The information needs to be real and only available to that one servant. Make sure the information is not something that the servant would normally share with anyone else.
If you have a limited number of suspects then use enchantment spells instead of divination spells to find him. A Geas for him to give a specific object only to his true master, and only to his true master would work.
If you forbid divinations, which is kinda unfair...especially if they still work for the NPCs...
The classic methods are these:
- place your own spy within the enemy HQ and see what messages get in and from whom (or about what); that can potentially locate any spy
- you place false information where the suspected spy will be able to see it and use different information with different persons; now when the enemy reacts in a way that is directly linked to the false information, you have made the number of suspects thus smaller and have a point from which to go on
- you intercept the enemy communication; a spy has to communicate with his masters in some predetermined way, be it by messenger, bird or whatever; most magical communication is out for serious spying, because it can be so easily imitated by another caster (you don't get to see him after all, and it would be useless if he is disguised anyway - or would you accept messages from anyone?)
- if he uses real disguises, he must have a place where he keeps them and where he can change; if not, he is susceptible to detect magic; also he can be using only a handful of disguises, since most servants and guards don't get into places where they can see secrets
If you forbid divinations, which is kinda unfair...especially if they still work for the NPCs...
Just to be clear, features specific to the Master Spy prestige class are blocking divinations. If the PCs had a Master Spy I would give them the same toys.
Thanks again. This was very helpful as it helps me get my mind around some of the things they may try and how the spy might react.
I'm secretly hoping they come up with a good plan.
Now to get ready. Game is on in 2 hours.
I didnt't read the class description. But if divinations don't work on him, he is easy to spot. Use a divination on a crowd (let's say sense alignment), and on whom it doesn't work is the spy. Just in case he is psychic and knows when to turn off his mindblank, use a second divination to locate him in tandem - he is either protected and sticks out or he is not and can be located.
Placing his aura on a helpless person won't help him very much in this case, he either shows up with one or not. I leave out the problems of keeping someone helpless around (and he cannot make that person undetectable) all the time...makes the dungeon a real obvious place to find him, too. Maybe there are other places around, in which you can keep someone helpless for a long time, but they should be obvious, and probably non-existent within a military HQ.
Some forms of divination should be able to find him pretty easily. The problem with Mindblank is that it completely blocks all divination. If your players cast some sort of divination that should ping off everybody, the person that's a blank is the spy.
From the SRD: Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to gain information about the target.
Now the Master Spy can do all sorts of interesting things with their alignment aura, so those divinations won't be helpful.
What about casting Detect Metal on payday? Just have a PC stand around watching the money being handed out. As soon as the Master Spy accepts the coins, they should suddenly not be detectable (attended objects).
This method could be used with a few different divination spells.
Also, as an aside. I noticed your write up for the Master Spy shows he has no ranks in Spellcraft. Meaning he would have no idea about what spells or magic could be used to find him. He should maybe hit the books.
I'm hoping they come up with a creative bait. So far they have been having secret meetings, feeding false information, and doing something completely different from the plans they've let slip.Regarding scent, would that be a complete give away or just a penalty to the disguise check? I'm leaning toward a penalty. If someone can create a disguise that is good enough to fool intimate relationships, they should know how to counter scent.
Scent's ultimate utility lies in that one line that many, many players overlook.... That one line that not even the 'Conceal Scent' feat fully blocks: "Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights."
That's why a wildshaped druid or animal companion or familiar can really ruin a spy's day, if they've met even once before. It's a bit of a stretch, but I'd suggest that it's possible to also distinguish race, foreign substances a character has been exposed to, their last meal, and any other such thing. A spy's disguise can fool even blindsight and truesight with a modifier like that, but they better be bathing often or have Prestidigitation handy if they want to Smell like their victims. Many don't think of the simple 1st-leve1 spell, Negate Aroma, to help them out, and the Master Spy doesn't seem to get it automatically. Even then, a player can still create a situation where a spy is unwittingly exposed to a unique scent, and easy to single out.
...Now, if the players are really looking for a tactic concerning an entire legion... Oof.
A short legion-wide Sparring practice or tournament could be a possibility, despite the size. You might be better off setting up regulations that better counteract espionage instead. A system noting attendance and strict curfew would be the most helpful, and a rotating watch that you always keep track...
Having a medical exam can help a great deal, especially if it divides your legion into smaller groups. The Master Spy can still probably appear to be someone else even when unclothed, but a decent Master Spy would avoid the risk.
Having a medical exam from a cleric or other divine caster means that: 1) They're being stripped of all magic items, and therefore only leaving the Master Spy's auras or nondetection/miindblank. 2) They often need to be exposed to such magic, to check for poison, disease, and general wellbeing, and 3) you have someone intimately knowledgable about various corporeal races that they can Heal, and can administer some other method of detection.
...Finally, one must strongly consider strengthening the chain of command and discipline. I'm not sure how your legion is run, but having officers that only share necessary information to their soldiers are key. You need to Force the Master Spy to take a risk and disguise as someone higher up in order to get that juicy, juicy lingo. In a legion, chances are most of your players' plans are already being passed along as rumors by clever soldiers that listen from outside tents, or through doors and windows. Go by written letter and official seals. Consider creating a cipher or some other written code, especially one that changes over time. The Master Spy would need to both steal the orders and then decipher them, and is more likely to target wherever or whatever means the codes are being generated from.
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@RubioB:
The thing about that is that the Master Spy can turn their Mind Blank on and off at will. So that only works if you can cast the spell on them without them realizing what you're doing. It's possible, but iffy with something you need to be in person to do, given how obvious spells are by default.
@RubioB:
The thing about that is that the Master Spy can turn their Mind Blank on and off at will. So that only works if you can cast the spell on them without them realizing what you're doing. It's possible, but iffy with something you need to be in person to do, given how obvious spells are by default.
Essentially Yes. A Master Spy's Assumption essentially eliminates the need to have their Mind Blank constantly active. They don't detect as nothing; They detect in every way as whatever character they're replacing. To find a weakness for a Master Spy, Without harming the creatures around it, you essentially need a method that:
- Can distinguish them from whatever creature they disguised as, and can see through a completely mundane disguise
- Avoids enchanting them or detecting truth through magical means, especially if it puts you at risk of a death attack.
- Traps them, as they'd be nigh impossible to catch if they can escape (barring a very, very high Survival skill, and even then)
Usually, when the list of suspects is low, you could perform some sort of enchanting trick that the Master Spy would be pressed to follow regardless of whether they make their save, and then figure out some sort of test for them. In an army, this is a near impossible feat, and gives the Master Spy plenty of time to concoct a countering plan.
For example, you could force a Master Spy to fight someone 'till unconsciousness and study their tactics, and follow that up with a spell. The Master Spy will be automatically willing, since they're unconscious. If they have their Mind Blank currently active, they're outed. If they have their Mind Blank currently inactive, then you can use the new spell (A curse usually works) to prevent them from lying, etc.
So we started the game this afternoon and the PC's had four outstanding missions. The first they decided to tackle was a plan to find the spy. The high general had already tightened the chain of command and deduced that he could trust 5 top leaders and the PCs.
The PC's themselves had just returned from a diplomatic missions which turned violent. After debriefing with their general, they agreed that they would let it slip that they recovered a document written in some form of code from another nation and that the group's scholarly cleric would spend time decoding the encryptions. Essentially, the encoded information belonged to a leader of the 3rd party that both the PCs and the spy's country wanted to win as an ally. Very interesting information for the spy, potentially.
The rest of the PC's pretended to disembark on another mission. In reality they were taking shifts keeping an eye on their friend as he read through some fake documents, keeping them always on his person. He kept guards at the door and only allowed a servant to come to him for food.
On day three, one of the guards was the spy. The cleric actually chatted with him a bit, but did not see through the disguise or sense anything was wrong with his motives. The spy for his part didn't get a look at the documents.
Day four was similar. On day five, the spy took a chance and chatted with the cleric again, attempted a death attack, and failed. The PC's were watching at the time, and teleported to the hall (very familiar place for teleporting). The spy tried to flee, but was tackled and taken prisoner. A brain drain from the oracle revealed enough information, and the prisoner was sent off for a quick military trial.
Also, as an aside. I noticed your write up for the Master Spy shows he has no ranks in Spellcraft. Meaning he would have no idea about what spells or magic could be used to find him. He should maybe hit the books.
Thanks for that catch. I'll need to update that.
Well done to your players! Pity the Spy took such a chance...
Well done to your players! Pity the Spy took such a chance...
Yes. I was agonizing over the; Would he go for it? Is that bait really good enough? This guy's been patiently under cover for years. Is this worth him taking the risk?
At the end of the day, he knew the circle was getting smaller. Less secrets were escaping, and he knew they were hunting for him. He visited the target twice before and didn't notice anything that seemed out of place. He couldn't really flee since his masters could potentially kill him for abandoning the mission. In game terms too, the PCs are getting close to hitting 17th. He was quickly getting outclassed.
In hindsight, I should have also given him a Sense Motive check, which if he succeeded and sensed something was up with the cleric, he would have resumed a role as a minor peasant or low ranking soldier, maybe waiting for years to take another attempt. But either way, he was out of the game.
Yes. I was agonizing over the; Would he go for it? Is that bait really good enough? This guy's been patiently under cover for years. Is this worth him taking the risk?At the end of the day, he knew the circle was getting smaller. Less secrets were escaping, and he knew they were hunting for him. He visited the target twice before and didn't notice anything that seemed out of place. He couldn't really flee since his masters could potentially kill him for abandoning the mission. In game terms too, the PCs are getting close to hitting 17th. He was quickly getting outclassed.
In hindsight, I should have also given him a Sense Motive check, which if he succeeded and sensed something was up with the cleric, he would have resumed a role as a minor peasant or low ranking soldier, maybe waiting for years to take another attempt. But either way, he was out of the game.
Agreed to all the above. If I might make another recommendation, a Master Spy that's been left alone for that long probably already does have some sort of contingency plan- especially framing someone else.
With a moderately high sense motive and bluff, and at least a positive modifier for diplomacy, it should be fairly easy to find at least one or two soldiers in an entire legion that are 'less popular' in the group. All he has to do is have enough evidence to plant to make it seem like they've been the spy all along, and the main reason the players simply couldn't divine the traitor amongst the crowd was because he was simply one of the crowd. A log of all the information collected would help. Convincing the victim that they would be hunted down soon enough can help... Bribing them by promising a good amount of cash going to their family, perhaps, and convincing them to basically commit suicide...
All the Spy has to learn is what method(s) the players have been using to seek him out.
My personal recommended scenario would probably be to:
1) Find a troubled soldier.
2) Have the person imbibe a toxin or suicide pill.
3) Plant what seems like a failed attempt to start a fire and burn their body, along with the evidence (A condensed log book, a cipher, a disguise kit/wardrobe/etc.)
4) Have the victim holding a symbol to an evil god or the opposing nation.
5) Convince a Second soldier to attempt to desert the legion, while disguised as the framed victim.
In the interest of time, I really didn't give much background on what the spy has really been doing for the entire campaign. But maybe you'd be interested in this short summary of some key campaign points.
* From the very beginning, the spy's reported on troop movements, and watch changes along watch towers across the frontier. The PCs never really figured out how so many enemy troops were able to sneak across the border undetected. Their commanders did have a suspicion.
* Low level soldiers were paid to do seemingly small acts of sabotage for a man who the PCs couldn't find.
* A significant hate group exists in the area and within the legion (anti-any race except human). Communications from brethren in the south (faked) and planted propaganda among legionnaires helped fuel dissent and lack of cooperation.
* The party ranger took some serious damage, and needed to recoup. The group decided to leave the PC in the safe hands of the fortress temple while they completed a time sensitive mission. They were surprised to find that the ranger disappeared without a trace along with her equipment. (The player couldn't continue with the campaign and the situation was just too convenient. At the time a high level assassin was also in the keep.)
* When a southern ambassador arrived rumors circulated (by the spy) that he was strongly tied to the pro-human movement and wanted to take the current general's position.
* When the general of the legion took a risk (a quick march from a recent battle back to the fortress with limited guards), intel from the spy led to the general's assassination.
* In the turmoil after the general's assassination, a certain high ranking officer was led to believe that many other officers and centurions supported his forceful taking of command. He was surprised when few joined in his violent attempt to take command. Letters found in his rooms touted devotion to him, and his leadership, but most were found to be fake, or written by men who had suddenly disappeared or were found dead.
*A high ranking priest found that his loved ones were captured by the enemy, and secretly told that if he didn't do as they wished his loved ones would die. Knowing the man's magical prowess and pride, the spy correctly guessed that he would try to secretly handle the matter himself.
* The traitor priest unwittingly lets a team of assassins into the fortress, who succeed in taking out a lead official (before falling to the PCs). The PCs didn't realize that they killed a lesser spy in this fight along with the lead assassin. The spy never went near the fight.
* The traitor cleric flees realizing his family is dead, and is eventually hunted down by the PCs. He never met the spy personally, so had nothing to reveal.
At one point I had a flow chart of who knew who and who the spy was manipulating. Over the course of levels 10 to 16, the PCs slowly chipped away at these. This sub plot was always rather secondary to other events that kept taking the PC's attention, so they were never really able to investigate these mysteries at length.
Good on your players for catching the spy.
Are you considering making him a recurring villain? I'm hearing Liam Neeson's speech from Taken. But this time, it's personal...
Despite the flaws of his capture i actually find it rather "human" in a sense, despite him being a master spy he could have been under heavy duress and/or impatience. Even if he knew the cleric was the cleric the death attack was a risk which could have given him the document and taken out one of the greatest threats to him.
However, the attack failed and the trap was sprung. Have to give credits to your players for their planning.
After years of infiltrating even the best can do that one stupid mistake that can mess up everything, and this was one of them.
After years of infiltrating even the best can do that one stupid mistake that can mess up everything, and this was one of them.
Unfortunately true... One of my favorite characters, a rogue well-trained in acrobatics and bluff amongst other skills, tried to do a little flourish on the railing of a moving ship to show off his skills. This was after an extensive battle. He rolled a 1, fell, and drowned in the icy-cold ocean. The other players chose not to attempt a rescue.
On a related note, he's the character I'm hoping to reincarnate into a Master Spy -AND- some of those original players are in this little homebrew game!
From your summary, they definitely had all the information necessary to conclude they were dealing with either a Master Spy or some very powerful enchantment magic. That's a very neat list of ideas and accomplishments...I might have to borrow a few. Your game sounds thematically fun in general!
So yeah. Kudos to the players. Poor spy. I hope you find some means to rescue him from the players' grip, or have him rescued by some nemesis who recognises their talent for giving the players a hard time. Simply having the players paranoid of every new NPC they meet can be a treat in itself, and now that the Spy has a grudge, life could get difficult...
@Bane Wraith:
I hope the roll of 1 caused his roll with modifiers to be too low and he failed because of that, rather than the often misconceived error that people do that skill rolls auto-fail or succeed on 1 or 20.
No idea how people manage to drag the rule from Saves and Attack over to skills, but i suppose thats because of the d20?
@Bane Wraith:
I hope the roll of 1 caused his roll with modifiers to be too low and he failed because of that, rather than the often misconceived error that people do that skill rolls auto-fail or succeed on 1 or 20.
No idea how people manage to drag the rule from Saves and Attack over to skills, but i suppose thats because of the d20?
I think he would have failed on a roll of 1 to 3, or something. Guessing the DC was over 20 with the wet railing on an unsteady ship. GM was aware that a natural 1 is not an automatic failure, but ruled he fell anyways. The whole group laughed. Then he died.
...
Treason the Fox will get his revenge!! *spooky ghost noises*
I think he would have failed on a roll of 1 to 3, or something. Guessing the DC was over 20 with the wet railing on an unsteady ship. GM was aware that a natural 1 is not an automatic failure, but ruled he fell anyways. The whole group laughed. Then he died....
Treason the Fox will get his revenge!! *spooky ghost noises*
Now that is most unfortunate, i am just glad its not one of those moments of: "You could have succeeded with your ranks, but alas you rolled a 1"...
I guess its my autistic feelings about it that i feel such grand tales can be ruined if it was just "DM/Group failed to grasp the rules"
I have wondered about the master spy class myself, but i wonder if i dont go for a vigilante instead, and maybe prestige from there to make a "mega spy"
I have wondered about the master spy class myself, but i wonder if i dont go for a vigilante instead, and maybe prestige from there to make a "mega spy"
I haven't looked deeply into the Vigilante. It looks interesting, but very specialized. IMO, it looks like it has some disadvantages vs the MS. Sure, you basically get the best disguise in the game from the get-go. It's also very limited, can utterly fail if exposed to the 'world at large', doesn't have the Master Spy's ability to shift from persona to persona or a fantastic backup ability like constant Mindblank to hide if discovered.
To prestige into MS, you'd need to give up 2 of your feats for a better disguise (where you already have a fantastic one), better will save (where it's one of your stronger saves), And you'd get sneak attacks with different criteria to meet than your hidden strikes (Unless you're a Serial Killer).
Overall I'd avoid it and recommend a rogue or slayer, who would fully benefit from the feats, sneak attack, and general tactics.
Treason, my kitsune, would be:
-Snakebite Striker (Brawler) 1
-Kitsune Trickster + Scout (Unchained Rogue) 8
-Assassin 1
-Master Spy 10
Main Features: Dex-based, High damage Non-lethal sneak attacks w/ Sap Master & improved unarmed strikes, Ability to Fox Shape, SLA Charm Person, and Vanish, Assassin 1 for early Death Attack progression, and Master Spy for sheer awesomeness.
I hope you find some means to rescue him from the players' grip, or have him rescued by some nemesis who recognises their talent for giving the players a hard time. Simply having the players paranoid of every new NPC they meet can be a treat in itself, and now that the Spy has a grudge, life could get difficult...
Unfortunately, my master spy is done. At this point in the campaign, the PC's will be busy gathering their allies, trying to stop an enemy army from uniting, while fending off intrusions from various 3rd party countries who are trying to take advantage of the situation. They've also learned to keep the chain of command tighter, just in case another spy comes along.
Good on your players for catching the spy.
Are you considering making him a recurring villain? I'm hearing Liam Neeson's speech from Taken. But this time, it's personal...
Pity that. Still sounds like an awesome campaign. I'd throw in a character if I could! On a side note, I think you may have miscalculated your Master Spy's actual disguise check...
Assuming 20 ranks to start, it looks like your modifier would be...
20
+10 (Master Spy bonus)
+6 (Skill focus)
+4 (Deceitful)
+3 (Class Skill)
+3 (Charisma)
There's 46. I'm going to guess that you're taking the Master of Disguise rogue archetype...
+5 (Consummate Actor)
+10 (Master of Disguise advanced rogue talent)
There's 61...
On the bright side, that's good enough to beat just about every perception check in the game.
Regarding scent, would that be a complete give away or just a penalty to the disguise check? I'm leaning toward a penalty. If someone can create a disguise that is good enough to fool intimate relationships, they should know how to counter scent.
1. Perfume, or similar, could be included in the disguise to alter scent. You could even buy it as a masterwork tool and get a bonus.
2. Scent can be alchemically negated. It's not even expensive
3. There is a feat that negates scent.
1. Doesn't really have a basis in the RAW as far as I know, and is about as realistic as disguising yourself by dying your hair red - perfume doesn't hide your scent, it just adds another scent. Still, I'd support it on the basis of "magic isn't realistic either".
2&3 don't really apply to disguises - good luck posing as a guard while wearing a faceless mask. It's useful for hiding who you are (and helps with stealth), but it also clearly shows that you are hiding your identity.
Pity that. Still sounds like an awesome campaign.
Thank you!
On a side note, I think you may have miscalculated your Master Spy's actual disguise check...
Assuming 20 ranks to start, it looks like your modifier would be...
20
+10 (Master Spy bonus)
+6 (Skill focus)
+4 (Deceitful)
+3 (Class Skill)
+3 (Charisma)There's 46.
Ah, I see that I missed the class skill bonus.
Here is how I came up with disguise check.
20 Ranks
6 Skill Focus
4 Deceitful
10 Master of Disguise Advance Rogue Talent
10 Art of Deception (part of Master Rogue PRC)
3 Cha
So I should have had 56, but I didn't want it too high either, or my group wouldn't really have a chance.