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FIRST OFF, PLEASE READ THIS POST TO THE END. I AM DOING WEIRD STUFF, BUT ALL THE ANSWERS ARE IN THE POST. DON'T 'TL/DR' IT AND THEN ASK QUESTIONS/MAKE SUGGESTIONS THAT I HAVE POSTED ABOUT PLEASE.
So, I have an idea for a VERY strange character. Basically, I have a vision in my head of how I want my character to go, but the system is fighting me every step of the way.
Part 1) This is going to be a Pathfinder Society character, so no third party stuff, or stuff outlawed by PFS (like the Brutish boots, much to my chagrin). No item creation, etc.
Part 2) The idea for the character is an investigator OR Alchemist (basically, want the alchemy class feature, it's a core part of the character) who primarily relies on unarmed combat. I'd especially like to focus on Kicking (it's the idea in my head, which is why I don't just go for a spiked gauntlet) Stupid, I know, but I'd like to try and build this character if possible.
Unfortunately, that doesn't really work too well with any investigator archetypes. The best I can come up with is this:
Oread (recently made legal for PFS without a boon)
Str:16
Dex:12
Con:14
Int:15
Wis:14
Chr:7
Traits: Adopted by Aasimar->Enlightened Warrior, Student of Philosophy
Level 1: Investigator (Empiricist) Feat: (Improved Unarmed strike)
Level 2: Investigator (Retrain unarmed strike to power attack)
Level 3: Investigator (Talent-Mutagen)(Feat-Extra Talent, Infusion)
Level 4: Unchained Monk 1 (Bonus feat: Deflect Arrows), +1 int
Level 5+: Investigator
At level 4 this nets me two attacks a +5/+5 for 1d6+5 damage (or +7/+7 for 1d6+7 with my mutagen active) and at level 5 I can start doing studied target. At level 4 I can UMD scrolls/wands of Mage Armor to increase my AC to 17 (4 from mage armor, 1 from dex, 2 from wisdom), and higher with mutagens/shield extracts.
It isn't perfect, I KNOW, and I am sure there are a lot more powerhouse builds out there. I have built them. To tell you the truth I'm kind of bored making powerhouse builds. I want to build fun, esoteric builds out of ideas I have in my head, and I think I could have some fun with this character.
I'm not looking for this character to be super stupid broken, just be able to contribute. I want them to be SOLVENT. Does anyone have any other suggestions on what I should do to make this character work/do they think it is solvent the way it is/any ideas?
Kirin style might be fun for this build
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Kirin style might be fun for this build
Ehh, MAYBE, but remember, when I use my STR mutagen, I get dumber (-2 INT). So -1 to those knowledge checks. Also the next step in the style (kirin strike, the one that does int mod to damage for a swift action) would also suffer.
Good thought, just don't think it'll synergize as well as you might think, especially since it takes a swift action to enter Kirin, and a swift action to identify, so you can't start it until round 3.
yeah didn't think about that.
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What about going with full Internal Alchemist instead?
Dual Talent Human
Traits: Bruising Intellect, Mizu-Ki Hikari Rebel
S14 D15+2 C14 I14+2 W12 CH7
1. Two-Weapon Fighting
2. Improved Unarmed Strike
3. Combat Expertise
4. Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), +1 DEX
5. Outslug Style
6. Breath Weapon Bomb
7. Lunge
8. Iron Will, +1 DEX
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
10. Shrug
11. Outslug Weave
12. Greater Mutagen, +1 DEX
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What about going with full Internal Alchemist instead?
Dual Talent Human
Traits: Bruising Intellect, Mizu-Ki Hikari Rebel
S14 D15+2 C14 I14+2 W12 CH7
1. Two-Weapon Fighting
2. Improved Unarmed Strike
3. Combat Expertise
4. Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), +1 DEX
5. Outslug Style
6. Breath Weapon Bomb
7. Lunge
8. Iron Will, +1 DEX
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
10. Shrug
11. Outslug Weave
12. Greater Mutagen, +1 DEX
Huh, I didn't really take a hard look at the internal Alchemist, might be worth looking into, but a few things:
1)I wasn't aware that you could two-weapon fight with unarmed strikes (since unarmed strikes can be 'anything' instead of a hand, I thought it didn't work). And, even if you can, you still suffer the -2 to hit and 'half strength' problem on you off attack, unlike unchained monks. The -2 to hit problem is really unappealing for 3/4 BAB classes.
2) My unarmed attacks in this build would not be considered weapons (unlike monk/brawler) so I can't use things like oils of Bless Weapon (etc.) Minor note, but something to consider.
3) I was really hoping to get infusion on this character. Part of the idea of the build is that there aren't a whole lot of people who can heal in our PFS games, and I'd like to bring SOME healing to the table, even it it isn't a huge amount. Although alchemists can use wands, unlike investigators . . .)
It's a good build, don't get me wrong, and the addition of Bombs would add a great deal of versatility, but I'm just not sure. Something to think about . . . thanks for the build.
1. I don't think you'd be hurting too much in terms of accuracy. Between Mutagen, Haste and Heroism, you should be hitting fairly well.
2. Not a big deal. Worst case scenario, by the time DR/good comes around, you can always take an extract of Apsu's Shining Scales (which works well with Breath Weapon Bomb).
3. You can always push Weapon Focus and Breath Weapon Bomb down the pipe for Infusion.
What about going with full Internal Alchemist instead?
Dual Talent Human
Traits: Bruising Intellect, Mizu-Ki Hikari Rebel
S14 D15+2 C14 I14+2 W12 CH7
1. Two-Weapon Fighting
2. Improved Unarmed Strike
3. Combat Expertise
4. Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), +1 DEX
5. Outslug Style
6. Breath Weapon Bomb
7. Lunge
8. Iron Will, +1 DEX
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
10. Shrug
11. Outslug Weave
12. Greater Mutagen, +1 DEX
What an interesting character. Taoist master of martial arts.
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Did some thinking, and I realized that I don't have to be lawful to get Monk abilities, so long as I start lawful when I get my one monk level. So if I start with a level in monk, then that frees up a trait.
I'm gonna crunch the numbers on both builds when I get home. I'm gonna say that the investigator feels more like my character, but secret Wizard's may be more viable with the bombs.
Seriously just check out the extract Apsu's Shining Scales from Legacy of Dragons and don't tell me that doesn't make you wanna go full hog on Alchie.
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Seriously just check out the extract Apsu's Shining Scales from Legacy of Dragons and don't tell me that doesn't make you wanna go full hog on Alchie.
I saw the spell, it's pretty darn cool. I dig it. Thing is, I can get it in my build just one level later. Actually, just get a potion of it and I can use Alchemical allocation to get it at level 5.
@Cory Stafford 29 , I thought about it, but to get Brawler's Flurry, I'd have to dip two levels, and that puts me two levels behind on my alchemy stuffs.
Edit: Did the maths, not assuming any magical items, as any items for one build will work for the other (amulet of mighty fists, etc.)
Slightly altered my build: Level 1 unchained monk (Mizu-Ki Hikari Rebel trait), rest in investigator
Level 1: +3/+3, 1d6+6 (power attack), AC17 (Mage armor)
Level 4: +5/+5, 1d6+6 (power attack), AC 17 (mage armor) or 21 (shield)
Level 7: +11/+11, 1d6+14 (Power attack, studied, mutagen), AC 19 (mutagen, mage armor) or 23
Level 11: +16/+16/+16/+11, 1d6+19 (Power attack, studied, mutagen, heroism, haste) AC 20 (haste, mutagen, mage armor) or 24 (+shield)
Pros: Good at skills, inspiration, trapfinding,
Cons: Not much in the way of ranged, one level behind on investigator alchemy stuff
Secret Wizard Build
Level 1 +2/+2 (1d4+4/1d4+3, spiked gauntlets, mutagen), AC 19 (Chain shirt, dex, mutagen) or AC 23 (+shield)
Level 4:+4/+4, 1d3+5/1d3+3,(Mutagen) AC 19 or 23
Level 7: +12/+12 1d3+6/1d3+4(Mutagen, Heroism, Outslug style), AC 20 or 24 (Mutagen, Outslug style)
Level 11: +16/+16/+16/+11/+11, 1d3+7/1d3+5 (Mutagen, heroism, outlsug weave, haste), AC 22 or 26
Pros: Bombs for ranged attacks, can use wands without UMD checks, easy to increase AC because enchanting Armor is easy.
Cons: Have to 5-foot every round to maintain outslug style bonuses, not nearly as versitile outside of combat for skill challenges.
Sooo, what's the verdict?
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My numbers were wrong, here's the real breakdown.
Oread Build
Level 1:
Hit:+3
BAB +1, Str+3, Power Attack -1
Dmg=+6
Str +3, Trait +1, Power Attack +2
Level 4:
Hit:+5
BAB +3, Str+3, Power Attack -1
Dmg=+6
Str +3, Trait +1, Power Attack +2
Level 7:
Hit:+11
BAB +5, Str+3, Mutagen +2, Studied +3 Power Attack -2
Dmg=+13
Str +3, Mutagen +2 Trait +1, Power Attack +4, Studied +3
Level 11:
Hit:+18
BAB +8, Str+3, Mutagen +2, Studied +5, Power Attack -3, Heroism +2, Haste +1
Dmg=+17
Str +3, Mutagen +2, Power Attack +6, Studied +5 Trait +1,
Secret Wizard Build
Level 1:
Hit:+2
BAB +0, Str+2, mutagen +2, TWF -2
Dmg=+4
Str +2, mutagen +2
Level +6:
Hit:+5
BAB +3, Str+2, Mutagen +2, Weapon Focus +1, TWF-2
Dmg=+5
Str +2, Trait +1, Mutagen +2
Level 7:
Hit:+10
BAB +5, Str+2, Mutagen +2, Weapon focus +1, heroism +2, TWF -2
Dmg=+6
Str +2, Mutagen +2 Trait +1, Outslug +1
Level 11:
Hit:+14
BAB +8, Str+2, Mutagen +2, Heroism +2, Haste +1, Weapon Focus +1 TWF -2
Dmg=+7
Str +2, Mutagen +2, Trait +1, Outslug weave +2,