Grappling and Bucklers

[TurquoiseMouse]

I did a look back at a few pages using the search feature, but could never find a solid answer. What penalties are there for using a buckler while grappling if any?

I am playing a brawler grappler and having a hard time passing the possible +6 AC (and other goodies) up. would it be:

- no penalty as it isn't an attack AND leaves the hands free
- -1 penalty and losing AC bonus because it is an attack
- -4 penalty because, reasons.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[_Ozy_]

You're not 'wielding a weapon', so you don't incur the -1 penalty, but if you use both hands to grapple you would lose the AC bonus.

However, you can grapple if you only have 1 'free hand' with a =4 penalty to the roll if you would like to keep the AC bonus.

[Scott Wilhelm]

I'd give you the -1 penalty. I wouldn't quibble with my GM if he wanted to impose the -1 penalty on me.

My basis for this is that I believe that Grapple counts as a weapon in this case. A Grapple Check is an Attack Roll. You can take Weapon Focus Grapple, and an Amulet of Mighty Fists doesn't improve Grapple Checks because the AoMF only enhances Unarmed Attacks. It was outlawed by Official Rules Post. Since a Grapple is an Attack, and since it is not Unarmed, it must be Armed. What is the weapon? The Grapple itself must be the weapon.

While I believe my argument to be correct, I realize it is not absolutely definitive.

When you are using a Buckler, your hand is not occupied. Buckler specifically says it is strapped to your arm and you can do things like 2weapon fight with a weapon in the same hand that your Buckler would be occupying.

So, no -4: your hands are free, but -1 because Buckler.

I am more confident about the no -4.

[Scott Wilhelm]

TurquoiseMouse wrote:

I am playing a brawler grappler and having a hard time passing the possible +6 AC (and other goodies) up. would it be... Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Just use a Throwing Shield, a Quickdraw Shield, or a Quickdraw Throwing Shield. If you have the Quickdraw Feat, you can remove or put on a Quickdraw Shield as a Free Action. You don't even need a Feat for Throwing Shield. Those can be unclasped and Thrown as Free Actions.

Use your Shield to get up close and personal with your opponents. Then Throw away your Shield hogtie your opponent, and pick it up later!

[_Ozy_]

It doesn't matter if grapple is considered an attack:

Quote:

You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an offhand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so.

You are not 'wielding a weapon' when you grapple, so no -1 to hit.

[Cuenta]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

... You can take Weapon Focus Grapple...

Source?

[Scott Wilhelm]

Cuenta wrote:

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

... You can take Weapon Focus Grapple...

Source?

The Weapon Focus Feat

Weapon Focus wrote:

Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple

[_Ozy_]

Doesn't matter. The new FAQ, along with the wording 'wield a weapon' restricts that language to a manufactured weapon.

You're not 'wielding' a grapple.