Rocket Launcher + Deadshot

[Destreza6]

Hi, I'm DMing an Iron Gods adventure path and one of my players, a Techslinger, has acquired a rocket launcher.

My question is: I'm assuming he can use Deadshot with the rocket launcher, and the enemy he hits will indeed receive the additional damage from the extra "shots", but... does the extra damage per successful attack roll applies also to the area damage caused by the rocket launcher?

Thanks in advance

Related links:

Rocket launcher: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/technological-weapons#TOC -Rocket-Launcher

Dead Shot (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can take careful aim and pool all of her attack potential into a single, deadly shot. When she does this, she shoots the firearm at a single target, but makes as many attack rolls as she can, based on her base attack bonus. She makes the attack rolls in order from highest bonus to lowest, as if she were making a full attack. If any of the attack rolls hit the target, the gunslinger’s single attack is considered to have hit. For each additional successful attack roll beyond the first, the gunslinger increases the damage of the shot by the base damage dice of the firearm. For instance, if a 7th-level gunslinger firing a musket hits with both attacks, she does 2d12 points of damage with the shot, instead of 1d12 points of damage, before adding any damage modifiers. Precision damage and extra damage from weapon special abilities (such as flaming) are added with damage modifiers and are not increased by this deed. If one or more rolls are critical threats, she confirms the critical once using her highest base attack bonus –5. For each critical threat beyond the first, she reduces this penalty by 1 (to a maximum of 0). The gunslinger only misfires on a dead shot if all the attack rolls are misfires. She cannot perform this deed with a blunderbuss or other scatter weapon when attacking creatures in a cone. The gunslinger must spend 1 grit point to perform this deed.

[CWheezy]

he can use it but he still only gets 1 attack, rocket launcher is slow firing so it can only fire one shot per round

[Destreza6]

CWheezy wrote:

he can use it but he still only gets 1 attack, rocket launcher is slow firing so it can only fire one shot per round

Thanks for answering. But deadshot already assumes only one bullet shot, it's just that the bullet carries the damage every shot would've done because of the careful aiming. I have no doubts about whether the initial hit of the rocket launcher applies the augmented damage.

The real question is: does the area blast, which affects every target 30' from the original impact, have its damage increased by the deed as well?

For example, the rocket launcher does 12D6 damage. A techslinger with 3 attacks (as per his Baby) can use deadshot to, if he hits with all three attacks, upgrade the damage to 36D6. But since the rocket launcher creates a blast 30' in radius, the question is: Is the damage of the blast 36d6 or the unmodified 12D6?

[Snowblind]

It comes down to what this means:

Quote:

Slow-Firing: A slow-firing weapon requires a full-round action to use, and thus cannot be used to make iterative attacks.

If it means "this weapon cannot be fired in a normal way, requiring a special full round action to use at all", then it can't be used for any other special attack actions (including deadshot). I would lean strongly towards this interpretation, because the alternative opens up too many cans of worms e.g. shortening the action time with Vital Strike.

If you want to use a different interpretation, then your player might be in luck.

[CWheezy]

As many attack rolls as you can with a slow firing weapon is one, so you would still only get one shot added to the deadshot.

[wraithstrike]

The rocket does not allow for iterative attacks so Snowblind and CWheezy are correct.

[Destreza6]

Thanks for your insight. Anyone else's will also be greatly appreciated.

[Plausible Pseudonym]

Ok. They are correct, and there is no other reasonable interpretation.

[Protoman]

Here's Mark Seifter's opinion on the matter, it's not official, but I doubt anyone is really gonna find any developers saying that a "slow-firing" weapon could ever have more than one shot for "attack potential" when it comes to Dead Shot.

Mark Seifter wrote:

Malak Branwen wrote:

Hi Mark, one question about slow-firing technological heavy weapon and Gunslinger's Dead shot deed.Are they compatible?

An 11th techslinger can treat heavy weapons as firearms to perform deeds. In most situations, heavy weapons are worse than a pistol for it can not be used to make iterative attacks.

Slow Firing wrote:
Slow-Firing: A slow-firing weapon requires a full-round action to use, and thus cannot be used to make iterative attacks.
Dead Shot wrote:
Dead Shot (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can take careful aim and pool all of her attack potential into a single, deadly shot.

It seems like "all your attack potential" in that case is one attack, since it takes a full-round action to shoot once.

[dragonhunterq]

Destreza6 wrote:

Thanks for your insight. Anyone else's will also be greatly appreciated.

let me add my name to the list above - They are correct.

[Gulthor]

I can't imagine what you are even considering another possible interpretation to be. Slow-Firing weapons are restricted to one attack per round as a full-round action. That exactly says right there that Dead Shot is incompatible with a slow-firing weapon.

[Halek]

Gulthor wrote:

I can't imagine what you are even considering another possible interpretation to be. Slow-Firing weapons are restricted to one attack per round as a full-round action. That exactly says right there that Dead Shot is incompatible with a slow-firing weapon.

Technically you can do it. It just does nothing to improve damage and makes it harder to crit. You can do it though.

[Destreza6]

Thanks everyone for your insights. You have been most helpful.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Destreza6 wrote:

Hi, I'm DMing an Iron Gods adventure path and one of my players, a Techslinger, has acquired a rocket launcher.

Depends what level your techslinger PC is. The Rocket Launcher is a Heavy Weapon, not a Firearm. At 11th level, the techslinger acquires "heavy weapon deeds (ex)" which allows the techslinger to treat the heavy weapons as firearms for the purposes of deeds.

The Rocket Launcher does require Exotic Weapon Proficency (heavy weaponry) feat as detailed on page 20 of the Technology Guide. The Techslinger does not get this one for free. It is also notable that the Techslinger's "Technic Training(ex)" ability only applies to types of advanced firearms, not to heavy weapons, so they can't select the Rocket Launcher to add their dex bonus to damage with.

[Destreza6]

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

Destreza6 wrote:

Hi, I'm DMing an Iron Gods adventure path and one of my players, a Techslinger, has acquired a rocket launcher.

Depends what level your techslinger PC is. The Rocket Launcher is a Heavy Weapon, not a Firearm. At 11th level, the techslinger acquires "heavy weapon deeds (ex)" which allows the techslinger to treat the heavy weapons as firearms for the purposes of deeds.

The Rocket Launcher does require Exotic Weapon Proficency (heavy weaponry) feat as detailed on page 20 of the Technology Guide. The Techslinger does not get this one for free. It is also notable that the Techslinger's "Technic Training(ex)" ability only applies to types of advanced firearms, not to heavy weapons, so they can't select the Rocket Launcher to add their dex bonus to damage with.

He is lvl 12, so he can apply his deeds to heavy weaponry. And has the required feat for proficiency. I, for one, would like to let him use the Deadshot feat with the rocket launcher (I assume the extra damage is byproduct of better aiming the rocket) but I'm not sure If the resulting area damage should also be amplified.

[johnlocke90]

Destreza6 wrote:

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

Destreza6 wrote:

Hi, I'm DMing an Iron Gods adventure path and one of my players, a Techslinger, has acquired a rocket launcher.

Depends what level your techslinger PC is. The Rocket Launcher is a Heavy Weapon, not a Firearm. At 11th level, the techslinger acquires "heavy weapon deeds (ex)" which allows the techslinger to treat the heavy weapons as firearms for the purposes of deeds.

The Rocket Launcher does require Exotic Weapon Proficency (heavy weaponry) feat as detailed on page 20 of the Technology Guide. The Techslinger does not get this one for free. It is also notable that the Techslinger's "Technic Training(ex)" ability only applies to types of advanced firearms, not to heavy weapons, so they can't select the Rocket Launcher to add their dex bonus to damage with.

He is lvl 12, so he can apply his deeds to heavy weaponry. And has the required feat for proficiency. I, for one, would like to let him use the Deadshot feat with the rocket launcher (I assume the extra damage is byproduct of better aiming the rocket) but I'm not sure If the resulting area damage should also be amplified.

At this point you aren't asking a rules question anymore. Per the rules it doesn't work.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Destreza6 wrote:

He is lvl 12, so he can apply his deeds to heavy weaponry. And has the required feat for proficiency. I, for one, would like to let him use the Deadshot feat with the rocket launcher (I assume the extra damage is byproduct of better aiming the rocket) but I'm not sure If the resulting area damage should also be amplified.

If you are the GM and you want to let the PC do something that is advantageous for them, there won't be any objection so you are free to do it however you want.

RAW, looks like it would work just fine.

I will note that the Pathfinder version of a Rocket Launcher can't be reloaded. A new one has 10 shots, and you just have less shots after each use. Definitely seems like the intention is for it be a cinematic weapon that exists so the party can get by a specific encounter and won't have the weapon for use later.

I'd be very cautious in letting the players acquire more rocket launchers, or otherwise regain rocket launcher ammunition. I'd even roll a d10 to determine how many rockets start in a newly found rocket launcher.

[swoosh]

Gulthor wrote:

I can't imagine what you are even considering another possible interpretation to be. Slow-Firing weapons are restricted to one attack per round as a full-round action. That exactly says right there that Dead Shot is incompatible with a slow-firing weapon.

I agree with you, but were I to make the opposing argument I'd say this:

Dead Shot tells you to make a number of rolls based on your BAB, not based on how many attacks one can normally make with the weapon. That you can't full attack with a rocket launcher normally doesn't matter, similarly to how it's impossible to full attack with a musket without taking a specific archetype, but you can still dead shot with it.