Detect Magic vs Contructs


Rules Questions

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Java Man wrote:
But golems have a caster level listed in their construction requirements, just like every magic item.

Wrongo.

SRD wrote:


The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item.

Golems have a set prerequisite caster level and a set base DC. The caster level adds +5 to the DC if you don't meet it. Other constructs don't even have a caster level as a prerequisite or product (the cobra construct series for one).

Magical items have a set final caster level that adds directly to the DC to create them.

A significant difference in parameter and process.

Ascalaphus wrote:
I suppose it is odd that there isn't a Detect Constructs spell.

I love this little guy.

Liberty's Edge

Java Man wrote:

So I follow the points that have been made, and can find no fault with the reasoning. I understand that not all things created or modified or what not with magic are magic themselves. What I am trying to reconcile is that Craft Construct is an Item Creation feat, and according to the CRB "An item creation feat lets a character create a magic item of a certain type."

So am I to assume an unwritten exception that constructs are the only things made with item creation feats that are not magic items? This would seem simpler than throwing out all of the evidence and discussion which has been cited above, but both cases require me/ us to ignore or add unwritten qualifications to portions of the rules.

Note that Craft Construct isn't a feat from the CRB, it is monster feat from the Bestiary and it say "The act of animating a construct ...." while the other say: "Brewing a potion ...", "Enhancing a weapon, suit of armor, or shield ...", "Crafting a rod ...", "Crafting a staff ...", "Crafting a wand ..." "Crafting a wondrous item ..." and "Scribing a scroll ...".

Animating is different from brewing, crafting, enhancing or scribing.
With one kind of action you create life, with the other set you craft something. A golem isn't a walking magic item, it is a creature.


What you, and several other folks are saying here is completely, 100% reasonable and logical. I have been hung up on the general language covering item creation feats from the CRB, I am aware that craft construct is printed in Bestiary 1, although I do not believe that the bestiary rules were not pretty well settled when the CRB was printed. With the principle that specific trumps general I have no problem with an item creation feat existing that does not make items, seems paradoxical at first glance, but the remainder of the system is the same so it does make sense. What I was hoping to find/ get was a specific acknowledgement of the exception for this one feat. I see this in a round about way by the illustration that a construct is a creature, does not have the characteristics of an object, so the craft construct feat must not make a magic item. Not as pretty as I would hope, but looks like it is there.


What you'll find is that a lot of these things that boil down to being exceptions are made so fairly implicitly. Sometimes they're specifically called out, but not as much as people would probably like. It can be a little frustrating at times, but the alternative is a truly voluminous ruleset.


Sangerine wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
I suppose it is odd that there isn't a Detect Constructs spell.

I love this little guy.

GOLEMBANE SCARAB wrote:

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Craft Wondrous Item, detect magic, creator must be 10th level

The item used to detect Golems has detect magic in its construction.


Dr Styx wrote:
Sangerine wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
I suppose it is odd that there isn't a Detect Constructs spell.

I love this little guy.

GOLEMBANE SCARAB wrote:

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Craft Wondrous Item, detect magic, creator must be 10th level

The item used to detect Golems has detect magic in its construction.

An adamantine golem construct requires Wish. Does that mean that Wish(or one of the other spells in its construction) can guaranteed make people Indestructible(Ex).


Snowblind wrote:
Dr Styx wrote:

GOLEMBANE SCARAB wrote:

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Craft Wondrous Item, detect magic, creator must be 10th level

The item used to detect Golems has detect magic in its construction.
An adamantine golem construct requires Wish. Does that mean that Wish(or one of the other spells in its construction) can guaranteed make people Indestructible(Ex).

Yes please!

By that same token, Flaming can use Flame Strike or Fireball, does that mean my sword does AoE damage? Cyclops Helm uses True Strike (and only True Strike), does True Strike let me make my roll a nat 20? Jingasa uses Divine Favor, does that make it add to AC now? I can do this all day. Magic item requirements are generally vaguely related but not explicitly related. More specifically, if Detect Magic already worked on constructs why wouldn't it say "Use Detect Magic, but only for detecting constructs"? It's shorter and uses existing spells instead of needing its own rules. Rules which are pretty vague, to be honest (can you detect through walls? Because as is, there's no restriction on the detection).


Java Man wrote:
What you, and several other folks are saying here is completely, 100% reasonable and logical. I have been hung up on the general language covering item creation feats from the CRB, I am aware that craft construct is printed in Bestiary 1, although I do not believe that the bestiary rules were not pretty well settled when the CRB was printed.

Most of these rules were direct copy and paste from D&D 3.5, which means they have been around for over a decade. They were settled.

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