For stealth, are concealment and non observed status two separate conditions you need to meet or does concealment automatically grant non observed status?
@BNW as far as the withdraw scenario you described, the only time you can leave cover/concealment and remain unobserved is when you specifically start your turn that way. You can't do it mid turn according the the Stealth entry.
Ok, so you only need to do it if you need to hide behind chunks of concealment. If the concealment is contiguous you don't? That's a ridiculously narrow set of circumstances to write an ability for.
When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed.
You can move up to half your normal speed and use Stealth at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty.
Did you cover less ground than your base rate would allow in that one action? Go ahead and Stealth. So, Withdraw and Stealth if you're not taking advantage of the double your speed part.
Moving 50' over two move actions is not necessarily the same as moving 50' over one Withdraw action.
And if it's not pillars, but just dim light all around, then you don't have to do anything, right? Just roll stealth and then move at will. Hell, 5' step to Stealth and sneak attack, right?I've always been of the opinion that concealment breaks observation. I've had this conversation a number of times. Nothing new has been said or is likely to be. Neither side will be convinced short of a FAQ. *shrug*
RE: Bluff/Hide & why you would ever do it - I can run behind one of six pillars, but if I don't distract you first, you know precisely where I am. So any advantage I have won't last long.
Sucks to be human in dim light.
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@BNW as far as the withdraw scenario you described, the only time you can leave cover/concealment and remain unobserved is when you specifically start your turn that way. You can't do it mid turn according the the Stealth entry.Ok, so you only need to do it if you need to hide behind chunks of concealment. If the concealment is contiguous you don't? That's a ridiculously narrow set of circumstances to write an ability for.
Rules for the sake of it:
Breaking Stealth When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment.As far as ridiculously narrow, that's an interesting opinion. In my experience, there is almost always more than one barrel, more than one hallway, more than one shadow, more than one pillar, more than one corner. The Bluff option is great to get to one of these places without flying in your attackers which one you went to.
I suppose you said "chunks of concealment" which admittedly sounds like it doesn't happen, but there will almost surely be chunks of cover on a map. Cover works for stealth too.
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Sucks to be human in dim light.And if it's not pillars, but just dim light all around, then you don't have to do anything, right? Just roll stealth and then move at will. Hell, 5' step to Stealth and sneak attack, right?I've always been of the opinion that concealment breaks observation. I've had this conversation a number of times. Nothing new has been said or is likely to be. Neither side will be convinced short of a FAQ. *shrug*
RE: Bluff/Hide & why you would ever do it - I can run behind one of six pillars, but if I don't distract you first, you know precisely where I am. So any advantage I have won't last long.
Apparently worse than I thought. I can be looking right at someone right next to me in the moonlight and they can just vanish.
As long as they beat you on the opposed roll that is what happens, yes.
Yeah, it isn't that they 'just vanish'. They are intentionally trying to hide from you and additionally you fail to find them.