Magus and Dragon Disciple... Maybe?

[Rylden]

So I was thinking of interesting ways to keep my Strength based Magus different from my previous Dex builds. I looked up Dragon Disciple and noticed I cant access it without spontaneous casting. So here are two rules questions...

Assuming a Magus lvl 4, Sorcerer lvl 1 starts taking lvls in Dragon Disciple. Do the bonus spells per day have to be applied to Sorcerer, OR because it allows you to choose between your arcane spell casting classes, increase your magus spells per day?

Assuming a Magus lvl 5 with Spell Focus, Spell Specialization, and Great Spell Specialization. Does he qualify to enter the Dragon Disciple class as he can now spontaneously cast an arcane spell?

[Talonhawke]

1. No they are too your sorcerer spells.

2. No you still can't technically spontaneously cast an arcane spell.

[Rylden]

Oops... small issue, forgot my Magus doesnt have the Dragonic Bloodline. So increase the level of the second questions magus, to allow for Skill Focus, and Eldritch Heritage(Dragonic)

@Talonhawke Where in Dragon Disciple is it written that the spells per day have to be applied to a spontaneous caster class?

[Imbicatus]

You can go magus/DD if you are an Eldritch Scion magus. Its really not worth it though.

[Bearserk]

Eldritch Scion archetype for spontaneous magus?!

Edit: ninjad..^^

[Talonhawke]

Rylden wrote:

Oops... small issue, forgot my Magus doesnt have the Dragonic Bloodline. So increase the level of the second questions magus, to allow for Skill Focus, and Eldritch Heritage(Dragonic)

@Talonhawke Where in Dragon Disciple is it written that the spells per day have to be applied to a spontaneous caster class?

I will have to correct myself there you actually could use it that way I got confused and was remembering the 3.5 version which only gave extra spell slots.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Rylden wrote:

Oops... small issue, forgot my Magus doesnt have the Dragonic Bloodline. So increase the level of the second questions magus, to allow for Skill Focus, and Eldritch Heritage(Dragonic)

@Talonhawke Where in Dragon Disciple is it written that the spells per day have to be applied to a spontaneous caster class?

It's pretty much a given that you have to add those levels in a class that allows you to qualify for the PrC. That CAN be the Eldritch Scion magus archetype.

[Talonhawke]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Rylden wrote:

Oops... small issue, forgot my Magus doesnt have the Dragonic Bloodline. So increase the level of the second questions magus, to allow for Skill Focus, and Eldritch Heritage(Dragonic)

@Talonhawke Where in Dragon Disciple is it written that the spells per day have to be applied to a spontaneous caster class?

It's pretty much a given that you have to add those levels in a class that allows you to qualify for the PrC. That CAN be the Eldritch Scion magus archetype.

Well a strict reading says "an arcane class you had before" So it would be reasonable to assume that any arcane class counts.

[Chess Pwn]

You can increase any arcane spellcasting class. You just need spontaneous to qualify, but it doesn't have to be the spellcasting you increase.

[Kazaan]

Ok, lets go over all of this. First, does a Magus with Greater Spell Specialization qualify for DD? No.

GSS wrote:

By sacrificing a prepared spell of the same or higher level than your specialized spell, you may spontaneously cast your specialized spell. The specialized spell is treated as its normal level, regardless of the spell slot used to cast it. You may add a metamagic feat to the spell by increasing the spell slot and casting time, just like a cleric spontaneously casting a cure or inflict spell with a metamagic feat.

DD wrote:

Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline.

You still have to prepare your Spell Specialization spell in order to sacrifice it to spontaneously cast any other spell. That pretty clearly doesn't satisfy the "without preparation" requirement for DD.

Next, if you have both spontaneous and non-spontaneous arcane classes, can the DD bonus caster level apply to a non-spontaneous one? Yes.

DD wrote:

At the indicated levels, a dragon disciple gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a dragon disciple, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

The ability calls out, in parentheses, if he is a spontaneous spellcaster. If applying the benefit to a spontaneous spellcasting class were a foregone conclusion, there would be no need to call that out. So the Magus wouldn't gain any "spells known" since he's not a spontaneous caster, but he'd still gain spells per day and effective caster level. There is, however, a spontaneous casting Magus archetype which would fully qualify in its own right.

Lastly, regarding gaining entry without the bloodline, DD doesn't actually require that you have the Draconic bloodline. It only requires that, if you are a Sorcerer (or take Sorc levels after taking DD), you must pick Draconic bloodline. So a Bard or Eldritch Scion Magus could qualify in their own right and, essentially, is treated as a lvl 0 Sorcerer with the Draconic Bloodline; to which you add your DD levels. A lvl 10 DD that gained entry without going through a class that grants a bloodline would be treated as having a Sorc level of 10 (10 + 0) for bloodline powers.