I have a concept for a swordsman. He is the "greatest swordsman who has ever lived" a'la Mad Mardigan from Willow with a sword (maybe an ancestral weapon) that has been broken about three fourths of the way up the blade.
Specifically I'm looking for a way to still have him do good to great damage, a greater than average crit range and an increased crit multiplier.
I've looked at the broken condition already, that doesn't seem to be a good option.
Otherwise, should I go fighter or should make some unholy modified monk? Or are there options to work with that would make it "legal" based on the rules as they are?
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Rules as written, no.
With DM cooperation, heck yeah.
I like the "broken blade of former glory" idea, and if a player pitched it to me I'd suggest it be a broken bastard sword, which would use the stats of a long sword until/unless it was reforged.
The problem with broken weapons is, that they are by their nature not as good as intact ones. I advise a visit to the weaponsmith, since you aren't going to be the greatest with a broken tool. Better show off by tying one hand behind the back, although I better find some cover once martials read this heresy :)
I know of no other way than go fighter to increase the crit multiplier. Crit range can be gotten from keen weapons too, if the feat is too expensive.
OK, thank you both for your input. I have a terrible knack for honing in on the limits of D20 in general and wanting to create a character idea outside of what the rules have covered/explored.
Vital strike's extra dice of damage will be helpful I think and I'll grab a couple of crit feats. I've seen two fighter archetypes that would be a good place to start with a customized class while retaining some fairness and limits that wouldn't make the character OP.
If you have any other ideas, thoughts, or opinions I'm happy to listen to them.
This might fit your idea or at least be a place to work from.
Basically you could play it as a short sword and fluff it as a broken long sword.
Stealing character designs are we? ;)
RAW, using a broken weapon will totally destroy your character concept.
If the item is a weapon, any attacks made with the item suffer a –2 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Such weapons only score a critical hit on a natural 20 and only deal ×2 damage on a confirmed critical hit.
So yeah, that is hella bad.
I would look into the "Breaker" archetype for barbarian's from the APG and see if you could get some houserules in to make you not suck with your broken weapon.
So you are looking to base your character around a weapon that does 1d10 damage, crits on 18-20 and has a x3 crit multiplier and all this whilst broken. Presumably the weapon gets even better when fixed and as you start out with the weapon you can optimise your feat progression.
To me it more than smacks of powergaming and I wouldn't allow it.
If you are looking to have the sword's repair and restoration to its former glory as a undercurrent in a campaign it would be possible. But the reality is that to balance it out you are likely to have a very poor weapon for much of the campaign.
Take one level in Pit Fighter.
You don't get full use of your build until 6th level (which could be built into the flavor), but it gets you everything you want.
So you are looking to base your character around a weapon that does 1d10 damage, crits on 18-20 and has a x3 crit multiplier and all this whilst broken. Presumably the weapon gets even better when fixed and as you start out with the weapon you can optimise your feat progression.
To me it more than smacks of powergaming and I wouldn't allow it.
If you are looking to have the sword's repair and restoration to its former glory as a undercurrent in a campaign it would be possible. But the reality is that to balance it out you are likely to have a very poor weapon for much of the campaign.
I never stated that I was looking to base my character "around a weapon that does 1d10 damage, crits on 18-20 and has a x3 crit multiplier and all this whilst broken."
And I never mentioned that I would try to have the thing fixed. You're making an awful lot of assumptions.
Take one level in Pit Fighter.
You don't get full use of your build until 6th level (which could be built into the flavor), but it gets you everything you want.
I appreciate the input but Pit Fighter, negates the inherent penalty I'm trying to incorporate into my character. I don't want to remove the penalty, just mitigate the loss somewhat using feats and class special abilities.
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I appreciate the input but Pit Fighter, negates the inherent penalty I'm trying to incorporate into my character. I don't want to remove the penalty, just mitigate the loss somewhat using feats and class special abilities.Take one level in Pit Fighter.
You don't get full use of your build until 6th level (which could be built into the flavor), but it gets you everything you want.
*blink*
Wat?
Stealing character designs are we? ;)
RAW, using a broken weapon will totally destroy your character concept.
If the item is a weapon, any attacks made with the item suffer a –2 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Such weapons only score a critical hit on a natural 20 and only deal ×2 damage on a confirmed critical hit.So yeah, that is hella bad.
I would look into the "Breaker" archetype for barbarian's from the APG and see if you could get some houserules in to make you not suck with your broken weapon.
Sorry I'm much too old to know anything about anime so that character image is beyond me. Actually my inspiration was the 1960s/1970s Wu Shu series "The One-Armed Swordsman" who yes had only 1 arm but also used a broken sword. He of course was a bad-ass.
The Breaker's Battle Scavenger ability is great, but again it's removing the penalty completely which is not the goal of this character.
So rules wise, does a broken weapon not benefit from Improved Crit or Vital Strike because of the penalties? OR would Improved Crit (for example) just make a broken longsword (able to crit on a 20 only) more or less as effective as it was prior to being broken (19-20 crit threat range)?
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I have a concept for a swordsman. He is the "greatest swordsman who has ever lived" a'la Mad Mardigan from Willow with a sword (maybe an ancestral weapon) that has been broken about three fourths of the way up the blade.
Specifically I'm looking for a way to still have him do good to great damage, a greater than average crit range and an increased crit multiplier.
I've looked at the broken condition already, that doesn't seem to be a good option.
Otherwise, should I go fighter or should make some unholy modified monk? Or are there options to work with that would make it "legal" based on the rules as they are?
So you are looking to base your character around a weapon that does 1d10 damage, crits on 18-20 and has a x3 crit multiplier and all this whilst broken. Presumably the weapon gets even better when fixed and as you start out with the weapon you can optimise your feat progression.
To me it more than smacks of powergaming and I wouldn't allow it.
If you are looking to have the sword's repair and restoration to its former glory as a undercurrent in a campaign it would be possible. But the reality is that to balance it out you are likely to have a very poor weapon for much of the campaign.I never stated that I was looking to base my character "around a weapon that does 1d10 damage, crits on 18-20 and has a x3 crit multiplier and all this whilst broken."
And I never mentioned that I would try to have the thing fixed. You're making an awful lot of assumptions.
It seems like you stated exactly that to me.
That said, to be helpful, I believe there are a few feats out there that use broken weapons to add a different type of benefit like a bonus on dirty tricks or some such, but I don't have time to search for them right now. I suggest searching a feat database for the term "broken" to start with.
Uh, you're kinda splitting hairs here.
No there's a fundamental difference. In one, the penalty is discarded. In the other the penalty is accounted for and additional bonuses are applied.
One is fitting the idea of the character, the other is using the rules to completely discard the penalties completely. Case in point, feats made to remove Drow penalties in sunlight/bright light so those pesky penalties don't have to ruin a min/maxer's perfect dual-sword wielding Ginsu machine.
Penalties are important for role playing purposes and should be embraced.
I have a concept for a swordsman. He is the "greatest swordsman who has ever lived" a'la Mad Mardigan from Willow with a sword (maybe an ancestral weapon) that has been broken about three fourths of the way up the blade.
Specifically I'm looking for a way to still have him do good to great damage, a greater than average crit range and an increased crit multiplier.
I've looked at the broken condition already, that doesn't seem to be a good option.
Otherwise, should I go fighter or should make some unholy modified monk? Or are there options to work with that would make it "legal" based on the rules as they are?
So you are looking to base your character around a weapon that does 1d10 damage, crits on 18-20 and has a x3 crit multiplier and all this whilst broken. Presumably the weapon gets even better when fixed and as you start out with the weapon you can optimise your feat progression.
To me it more than smacks of powergaming and I wouldn't allow it.
If you are looking to have the sword's repair and restoration to its former glory as a undercurrent in a campaign it would be possible. But the reality is that to balance it out you are likely to have a very poor weapon for much of the campaign.I never stated that I was looking to base my character "around a weapon that does 1d10 damage, crits on 18-20 and has a x3 crit multiplier and all this whilst broken."
And I never mentioned that I would try to have the thing fixed. You're making an awful lot of assumptions.
It seems like you stated exactly that to me.
That said, to be helpful, I believe there are a few feats out there that use broken weapons to add a different type of benefit like a bonus on dirty tricks or some such, but I don't have time to search for them right now. I suggest searching a feat database for the term "broken" to start with.
OK I see where you got that. My thought process was in the realm of feats, etc over time. Not a weapon or special ability that negates the penalties. My fault for not being specific.
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Uh, you're kinda splitting hairs here.No there's a fundamental difference. In one, the penalty is discarded. In the other the penalty is accounted for and additional bonuses are applied.
One is fitting the idea of the character, the other is using the rules to completely discard the penalties completely. Case in point, feats made to remove Drow penalties in sunlight/bright light so those pesky penalties don't have to ruin a min/maxer's perfect dual-sword wielding Ginsu machine.
Penalties are important for role playing purposes and should be embraced.
Um, there is absolutely no difference at all in what you said.
Option A removes the penalty. Option B gives you bonuses, thus removing the penalty. Same thing.
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Sorry I'm much too old to know anything about anime so that character image is beyond me.Stealing character designs are we? ;)
RAW, using a broken weapon will totally destroy your character concept.
If the item is a weapon, any attacks made with the item suffer a –2 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Such weapons only score a critical hit on a natural 20 and only deal ×2 damage on a confirmed critical hit.So yeah, that is hella bad.
I would look into the "Breaker" archetype for barbarian's from the APG and see if you could get some houserules in to make you not suck with your broken weapon.
Oh ho...yes your age is certainly showing :P
The Breaker's Battle Scavenger ability is great, but again it's removing the penalty completely which is not the goal of this character.
No it doesn't, it only gets rid of the penalty to hit. It still becomes a weapon that only has a 20/x2 crit.
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If you're looking for something to stimulate RP, but still be an effective character, take a look at the Quick Fix Anvil Equipment Trick. It lets you work on your sword to make it not broken for an hour, but then it breaks down again and takes even more damage. You'll need to consistently work to repair your sword to make it functional, and inevitably you'll occasionally be caught off guard and have to make do with the full broken version.
Are you level 20? If not, then "greatest swordsman in the world" is already a non-starter.
As a GM I'd also look askance at a "greatest swordsman" who not only uses a terrible blade, but doesn't even use it with a particular level of skill (i.e. you want to still take penalties from the broken blade).
A great swordsman should be able to use his broken blade with such proficiency as to put users of whole blades to shame. So removing the penalties is a good start.
Saying "but I need to have penalties" does not stimulate RP (numbers =/= roleplay) and actively hinders verisimilitude as far as your concept goes (a "greatest swordsman" who uses inferior weaponry with exactly the same proficiency a supposedly lesser swordsman would use said weapon).
Your whole stated goal is at odds with your unwillingness to actually make your character good with a sword. "Great swordsman" is an almost entirely mechanical character archetype. Saying "I want to be the greatest swordsman in the world, but I don't want to optimize my character mechanically to be a great swordsman" (or, at the very least, THIS sword) is the equivalent of saying "I want to be the greatest archmage the land has ever seen, but I need to do it with the Commoner class". It makes no logical sense.
It kind of works as an ironic character (a boastful character who isn't as good as he actually thinks he is, like Joxer from Xena or something), but I don't think that's what you were going for.