2016 US Election


Off-Topic Discussions

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Guy Humual wrote:
Seriously, I don't like Hilary, but if she got away with all the stuff she's accused of then she's clearly a woman who can get s%#% done.

She'd have to be simultaneously incredibly sneaky and skillful and completely inept. Otherwise she wouldn't leave so many clues that a random congresscritter, talk show host or conspiracy theorist can figure it out, but not one scrap of hard evidence that could convict her.

Or, I suppose, so ruthless and influential that she can control or squelch all the official investigations despite them having proof, even during the Bush years, but still not be able to silence the prominent voices spreading the nonsense.

And this isn't even the usual political/corporate corruption kind of thing, where you have subordinates convicted right and left, but can't quite get the evidence to prove the head figure was guilty. She doesn't have people taking the fall for her.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
thejeff wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
Seriously, I don't like Hilary, but if she got away with all the stuff she's accused of then she's clearly a woman who can get s%#% done.
She doesn't have people taking the fall for her.

Of course not. She has them all killed.

</tinfoil hat>

Sovereign Court

thejeff wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
Seriously, I don't like Hilary, but if she got away with all the stuff she's accused of then she's clearly a woman who can get s%#% done.

She'd have to be simultaneously incredibly sneaky and skillful and completely inept. Otherwise she wouldn't leave so many clues that a random congresscritter, talk show host or conspiracy theorist can figure it out, but not one scrap of hard evidence that could convict her.

Or, I suppose, so ruthless and influential that she can control or squelch all the official investigations despite them having proof, even during the Bush years, but still not be able to silence the prominent voices spreading the nonsense.

And this isn't even the usual political/corporate corruption kind of thing, where you have subordinates convicted right and left, but can't quite get the evidence to prove the head figure was guilty. She doesn't have people taking the fall for her.

Maybe she's so good that she's able to make folks like Alex Jones and Glen Beck seem crazy so people like us chalk up their accusations as crazy conspiracy theories. Bet you never considered that.

Edit: or she leaks the clues to her nefarious deeds to them first so the source of the conspiracy is tainted. Dun dun duuuuuun


Guy Humual wrote:

Maybe she's so good that she's able to make folks like Alex Jones and Glen Beck seem crazy so people like us chalk up their accusations as crazy conspiracy theories. Bet you never considered that.

Edit: or she leaks the clues to her nefarious deeds to them first so the source of the conspiracy is tainted. Dun dun duuuuuun

Standard Illuminati practice: Leak the truth to the supermarket tabloids. Once something's been printed there, no one will believe it.


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To the hot sheets Agent J!

Sovereign Court

thejeff wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:

Maybe she's so good that she's able to make folks like Alex Jones and Glen Beck seem crazy so people like us chalk up their accusations as crazy conspiracy theories. Bet you never considered that.

Edit: or she leaks the clues to her nefarious deeds to them first so the source of the conspiracy is tainted. Dun dun duuuuuun

Standard Illuminati practice: Leak the truth to the supermarket tabloids. Once something's been printed there, no one will believe it.

Kind of like how aliens only abduct sad lonely midwest types. They know nobody is going to believe an alien is going to travel all the way across the galaxy just to abduct some hick from the middle of nowhere. It's the perfect crime.


Guy Humual wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:

Maybe she's so good that she's able to make folks like Alex Jones and Glen Beck seem crazy so people like us chalk up their accusations as crazy conspiracy theories. Bet you never considered that.

Edit: or she leaks the clues to her nefarious deeds to them first so the source of the conspiracy is tainted. Dun dun duuuuuun

Standard Illuminati practice: Leak the truth to the supermarket tabloids. Once something's been printed there, no one will believe it.

Quote:
Kind of like how aliens only abduct sad lonely midwest types. They know nobody is going to believe an alien is going to travel all the way across the galaxy just to abduct some hick from the middle of nowhere. It's the perfect crime.

and yet we fly halfway around the world in a flying machine, shine bright lights on animals, fill them with a sense of euphoria, poke, prod, take samples,lift them into the sky and then let them go for reasons that must be unfathomable to them.

Liberty's Edge

thejeff wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:

Maybe she's so good that she's able to make folks like Alex Jones and Glen Beck seem crazy so people like us chalk up their accusations as crazy conspiracy theories. Bet you never considered that.

Edit: or she leaks the clues to her nefarious deeds to them first so the source of the conspiracy is tainted. Dun dun duuuuuun

Standard Illuminati practice: Leak the truth to the supermarket tabloids. Once something's been printed there, no one will believe it.

[FNORD]


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
To the hot sheets Agent J!

LOL :) I love the MIB reference Drah. :)

Sovereign Court

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:

Maybe she's so good that she's able to make folks like Alex Jones and Glen Beck seem crazy so people like us chalk up their accusations as crazy conspiracy theories. Bet you never considered that.

Edit: or she leaks the clues to her nefarious deeds to them first so the source of the conspiracy is tainted. Dun dun duuuuuun

Standard Illuminati practice: Leak the truth to the supermarket tabloids. Once something's been printed there, no one will believe it.
Quote:
Kind of like how aliens only abduct sad lonely midwest types. They know nobody is going to believe an alien is going to travel all the way across the galaxy just to abduct some hick from the middle of nowhere. It's the perfect crime.
and yet we fly halfway around the world in a flying machine, shine bright lights on animals, fill them with a sense of euphoria, poke, prod, take samples,lift them into the sky and then let them go for reasons that must be unfathomable to them.

But when we do it it's funny.


thunderspirit wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
Seriously, I don't like Hilary, but if she got away with all the stuff she's accused of then she's clearly a woman who can get s%#% done.
She doesn't have people taking the fall for her.

Of course not. She has them all killed.

</tinfoil hat>

Maybe there's no record of how many she's had killed, since she deleted the emails. JUST SAYIN'.


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bugleyman wrote:

Well, we did already decide up thread that Hillary Clinton is secretly one of America's most prolific serial killers.

So there's that...

I finally understand why Zodiac reptoid-in-a-human-suit Cruz hates her; he's just professionally jealous.

It's either that or he's jealous she's friendly with Martha Stewart, and thus, privy to Stewart's sundry of secrets for sensational soup synthesis.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So, this was a page or two back, but GreywolfLord brought up an individual who took photos inside a sub. I work in those areas, it is well known (by everyone) that photos cannot legally be taken in those areas, in fact you're not even allowed to HAVE a camera in them. You have to pass multiple signs, and armed sailors who ask you point blank if you have any electronic devices.


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We know Billy stole candy, was caught and punished. Since we can see Sally eating candy, we can therefore assume she also stole it.


...And now I'm having flashbacks of my logic classes. XD

Silver Crusade

thejeff wrote:
And this isn't even the usual political/corporate corruption kind of thing, where you have subordinates convicted right and left, but can't quite get the evidence to prove the head figure was guilty. She doesn't have people taking the fall for her.

Whether or not it is more or less than other presidential candidates (I wouldn't even think there's a fair way to measure), the Clintons are certainly associated with people who have criminal records. Did they take a dive for the Clintons, unknown and never proven.

Sant Chatwal, as one example.


Ajaxis wrote:
thejeff wrote:
And this isn't even the usual political/corporate corruption kind of thing, where you have subordinates convicted right and left, but can't quite get the evidence to prove the head figure was guilty. She doesn't have people taking the fall for her.

Whether or not it is more or less than other presidential candidates (I wouldn't even think there's a fair way to measure), the Clintons are certainly associated with people who have criminal records. Did they take a dive for the Clintons, unknown and never proven.

Sant Chatwal, as one example.

Yeah. "associated with". As in "Guilt by"

I was thinking more of things like Christie's Deputy Chief of Staff fired and under indictment for the Bridgegate scandal - allegedly done entirely on her own initiative and without informing her boss.


Are now, or have ever "the Clintons" been a presidential candidate? I can't believe the way "the Adams" founded this nation! ;)

Silver Crusade

So closer to Sandy Berger?


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Oh boy. This ought to be interesting to watch. I wonder how he's going to use this for political points without revealing classified information?

FBI To Begin Trump Briefings


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CrystalSeas wrote:

Oh boy. This ought to be interesting to watch. I wonder how he's going to use this for political points without revealing classified information?

FBI To Begin Trump Briefings

"Aliens> Please can we tell him there are aliens. I got a cousin that can cosplay in THE most realistic..

"no...

"but...

"No. We said we were going with the lizard people and that's final!


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Anyone wanna make a bet on whether or not he can go 48 hours without saying something from one of the briefings that he shouldn't?


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Red,

I'd bet money if I had any. I'd give him like 24 hours.


If he makes it to 48, I'll take double or nothing on 72. *wink*


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Rednal wrote:
Anyone wanna make a bet on whether or not he can go 48 hours without saying something from one of the briefings that he shouldn't?

I don't think even Vegas would lay odds on it - chances are the house will lose, and they hate that.


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With those babyhands i bet he can live tweet the classified info in 4.8 seconds flat.


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Hit,

If he makes it to 48 hours I'll be impressed. Not greatly, but impressed.

Grey,

Not sure that's true. Vegas bets on everything after all.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
With those babyhands i bet he can live tweet the classified info in 4.8 seconds flat.

THAT! I believe.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Hit,

If he makes it to 48 hours I'll be impressed. Not greatly, but impressed.

Grey,

Not sure that's true. Vegas bets on everything after all.

I tried to google the odds and couldn't find them, but got a twitter hit from someone saying Vegas took that off the boards. Of course, Trump is proof that you can say nearly anything on twitter.


Grey

I believe you. I just thought Vegas would. Oh well.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
With those babyhands i bet he can live tweet the classified info in 4.8 seconds flat.

They give him the advantage of never accidentally hitting the wrong key, it really speeds up the process.


I'm guessing he'd talk about it at a rally, myself. Just going off on a tangent about something, then adding "Did you know that right now we're [Classified info]? I couldn't believe it! That's the kind of nonsense your leaders are doing, elect me to fix it!"

Or thereabouts.


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If i'm being even more jokey than usual...

What serious point could possibly be made in this election? I don't like Hillary Clinton therefore trump. The logic is beyond any ability to parody.

She's a competent career politician with a kind of left center view. everything against her is canned grarg whipped up over nothing. Is she radically going to change anything over the last 8 (20, 30?) years, no.

He's a billionaire real estate mogul who's father was.. a real estate mogul. He's known for shifty business practices, cons, shorting his workers. This election has shown that he is either completely divorced from reality (global warming, basic facts about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq) or is willing to pander to the rights complete lack of connection to rational thought. The only concrete proposals he's had are an insanely expensive wall that we know doesn't stop anyone and more trickle down economics of giving tax breaks to the rich that we know with absolute certainty do.not.work.

WHY

What the hell is going through people's heads that this is even an option ? If you're telling me an email scandal you're lying to yourself. That isn't it. You are being made too angry to think straight and you need to get your head on right, because this is freaking serious.


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At a guess? I think a lot of people feel like the system is set up against them - and when you have things like real wages being basically stagnant for decades, massive student debt, high unemployment and underemployment that seemed to be caused by those on top being greedy (sub prime lending)... well, they may have a point. Given that, I think some of them may just want to shake up the system and hope the end result is better.

That's probably not everyone, of course. Some people probably believed in Trump from the start. Many of them may have already had long-standing opinions from watching him on television - they think he's a successful businessman and don't pay much attention to the news or scandals. Some may believe all of the media really is biased against him because he's not "establishment". Some people are genuinely uninformed about his proposals and ideas. I don't think there's any one answer, here. Different people probably support him for different reasons.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:


WHY

What the hell is going through people's heads that this is even an option ? If you're telling me an email scandal you're lying to yourself. That isn't it. You are being made too angry to think straight and you need to get your head on right, because this is freaking serious.

I, of course, don't agree with your assessment of Clinton (and I'd hazard a guess that I'm one of the few posters in this thread that helped organize an anti-Trump demonstration) but I'll take a stab at the question:

Eight years of a neoliberal "recovery" that has left the masses screwed , with the prospect of four to eight more under Clinton, combined with the usual racist scapegoating that often goes along with that, plus an electorate weaned on a nostalgic belief in a never-was greatness of yore, along with a very American love of con artists and carnival barkers.

Sovereign Court

I think it's cute that you guys think Trump is reading his classified briefings. If it's not on the cable news he's not interested.


Reading? No. Actually, I think the briefings are delivered in person - I was reading something earlier about a 'meeting', probably in NYC, where it would happen.

Sovereign Court

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:


WHY

What the hell is going through people's heads that this is even an option ? If you're telling me an email scandal you're lying to yourself. That isn't it. You are being made too angry to think straight and you need to get your head on right, because this is freaking serious.

I, of course, don't agree with your assessment of Clinton, and I'd hazard a guess that I'm one of the few posters in this thread that helped organize an anti-Trump demonstration, but I'll take a stab at the question:

Eight years of a neoliberal "recovery" that has left the masses screwed , with the prospect of four to eight more under Clinton, combined with the usual racist scapegoating that often goes along with that, plus an electorate weaned on a nostalgic belief in a never-was greatness of yore, along with a very American love of con artists and carnival barkers.

I'm pretty tired of neo liberals as well, a side effect of moving so far to the right has been it's driven the republicans to the point of cartoon villainy.


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Michael Moore: Trump Is Self-Sabotaging His Campaign Because He Never Really Wanted the Job in the First Place

Not really a Michael Moore fan, but I enjoyed this article.

Sovereign Court

Rednal wrote:
Reading? No. Actually, I think the briefings are delivered in person - I was reading something earlier about a 'meeting', probably in NYC, where it would happen.

I think it's cute that you think Trump has time to listen to briefings when there are cable news shows on. He doesn't listen to his advisers why would he listen to someone that's not a yes man working for him?


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Rednal wrote:
At a guess? I think a lot of people feel like the system is set up against them -

They're right. But how do you go from "the system is set up against me" to "lets bring in the person that rigged the system for their own benefit to help end the system they make billions of dollars on"

Whats his motivation for doing that?

Quote:
Given that, I think some of them may just want to shake up the system and hope the end result is better.

We;re an oligarchy. He IS the system. Businessmen buy politicians to enact laws to help businessmen. It's not shaking up the system it's electing the ventriloquist instead of the dummy.


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At a guess? He's also a showman who's very good at playing to people's emotions. And when people stop thinking and start supporting based on how they feel, they're not concerned about little details like who's buying who...

Sovereign Court

I think where it's safe voting for a 3rd party might be an opportunity to some more voices into the public sphere. I'm not at all hopeful that they'll win but maybe we can get people excited about the mid terms, maybe vote some more Bernie supporters into office, maybe a few greens or even a few libertarians, something to break the gridlock, and maybe next election cycle we have a viable candidate to challenge Hilary or at least pressure her to keep a progressive agenda. I fear that Hilary is going to use Trump's collapse to move back towards the right in hopes of grabbing those disenfranchised republicans.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
CrystalSeas wrote:
...FBI To Begin Trump Briefings

"Aliens> Please can we tell him there are aliens. I got a cousin that can cosplay in THE most realistic..

"no...

"but...

"No. We said we were going with the lizard people and that's final!

Trump already knew about the Sleestaks, even had one speak at the RNC. Didn't get Enik's Cruz's endorsement, but he's reportedly not worried; he's still polling 5-6 points over HRC with the Pakuni.


[Takes off Commie hat for Cynical Hat]

“No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”

--H.L Mencken

Which apparently is the more famous paraphrase of:

“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”


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H. L. Mencken wrote:
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.


Pillbug Toenibbler wrote:

"No. We said we were going with the lizard people and that's final!

Trump already knew about the Sleestaks, even had one speak at the RNC. Didn't get Enik's Cruz's endorsement, but he's reportedly not worried; he's still polling 5-6 points over HRC with the Pakuni.

How dare you.

Enik was an evolved sleestack, a kinda and gentle soul who worked hard to improve his people and cared about sentient life.

Cruz was definitely one of the post apocalypse green shufflers


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Guy Humual wrote:
I think where it's safe voting for a 3rd party might be an opportunity to some more voices into the public sphere. I'm not at all hopeful that they'll win but maybe we can get people excited about the mid terms, maybe vote some more Bernie supporters into office, maybe a few greens or even a few libertarians, something to break the gridlock, and maybe next election cycle we have a viable candidate to challenge Hilary or at least pressure her to keep a progressive agenda. I fear that Hilary is going to use Trump's collapse to move back towards the right in hopes of grabbing those disenfranchised republicans.

It's always possible, but she's shown no sign of it yet and she's picked up plenty of the disenfranchised Republicans. I think the convention did a lot to appeal to them, but it did it by being upbeat and patriotic, not by changing policies.

Some will claim she's already basically Republican or that she'll shift when she's governing, but for the moment she's still campaigning on the policies and issues she used during the primary. There's no evidence of the usual shift to the center for the general.

Getting people excited about the midterms is a key. Republicans have long had an advantage over Democrats in midterm turnout, which amplifies the boost the party not in the White House usually gets. That said, the change of getting greens or libertarians into Congress or even many prominent state jobs is tiny. Primarying Democrats from the left has a much better chance of making a difference - much as the Tea Party primarying Republicans from the right did. Keep the momentum Bernie built up, but point it at Congress and state elections & issues rather than tearing down Clinton.

I'm all for pressuring Clinton, but actually winning a primary against a sitting president is ridiculously hard and even making a serious try can backfire. I'd much focus on shifting Congress, which is at least as important anyway. And even more in 2018 and 2020 on the states. With the Census in 2020 and redistricting following that, those two cycles are critical on the state level.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

If i'm being even more jokey than usual...

What serious point could possibly be made in this election? I don't like Hillary Clinton therefore trump. The logic is beyond any ability to parody.

She's a competent career politician with a kind of left center view. everything against her is canned grarg whipped up over nothing. Is she radically going to change anything over the last 8 (20, 30?) years, no.

He's a billionaire real estate mogul who's father was.. a real estate mogul. He's known for shifty business practices, cons, shorting his workers. This election has shown that he is either completely divorced from reality (global warming, basic facts about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq) or is willing to pander to the rights complete lack of connection to rational thought. The only concrete proposals he's had are an insanely expensive wall that we know doesn't stop anyone and more trickle down economics of giving tax breaks to the rich that we know with absolute certainty do.not.work.

WHY

What the hell is going through people's heads that this is even an option ? If you're telling me an email scandal you're lying to yourself. That isn't it. You are being made too angry to think straight and you need to get your head on right, because this is freaking serious.

Well, there's a core group that will always vote Republican. There are racists and sexists and homophobes. There's been a 20+ year smear campaign against the Clintons and against her specifically.

And his numbers are in the toilet. If the election was held today, he'd lose by historic margins. If trends continue, it's going to get worse.

And yeah, making people too angry to think straight works.


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Penn Jillette's thoughts on throwing his vote away:

Spoiler:
Penn Jillette wrote:
When people say, “you’re wasting your vote,” all they are saying to you is “f!&@ you.” They’re saying, “you need to support what I believe, don’t support what you believe, you’re wasting your vote by not voting for what I believe.” So when anybody says to you, “if you vote for a third party candidate, you’re throwing away your vote,” your answer must be – two words, and not “Merry Christmas,” – they must be, “f%$@ you.” And if you want to do a more elaborate answer, and explain your position more, “f&$% you in the neck,” is a way to make that clear.

Hear it in his voice!

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