First off, I have a feeling this has been answered and I just missed it. Anyway so I am making an eidolon that I am planning to give quite a few Tail and/or Tentacle attacks. So I am confused, is a creature able to attack with all it's Natural Attacks as a standard action? If not that's fine. Also is there anyway to increase Max Natural Attacks of an Eidolon?
A standard action gets you ONE attack (of whatever sort) unless you have some special ability that explicitly says otherwise.
Ok, then is there any advantage to having multiple Natural Attacks, past the amount of attacks your BAB allows.
(On unrelated note can a Eidolon take the Extra Evolution feat?)
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Ok, then is there any advantage to having multiple Natural Attacks, past the amount of attacks your BAB allows.
(On unrelated note can a Eidolon take the Extra Evolution feat?)
You're not limited to an amount of natural attacks by your BAB - you receive as many natural attacks as you have. If you have 2 claws, a bite, and a slam, your full attack action includes all 4, even if you only have BAB = +1. BAB influences manufactured weapon's extra attacks, for the most part.
An eidolon cannot take the Extra Evolution feat, because it requires the Eidolon class feature, which it does not possess.
Ok, then is there any advantage to having multiple Natural Attacks, past the amount of attacks your BAB allows.
(On unrelated note can a Eidolon take the Extra Evolution feat?)
You're not limited to an amount of natural attacks by your BAB - you receive as many natural attacks as you have. If you have 2 claws, a bite, and a slam, your full attack action includes all 4, even if you only have BAB = +1. BAB influences manufactured weapon's extra attacks, for the most part.
An eidolon cannot take the Extra Evolution feat, because it requires the Eidolon class feature, which it does not possess.
Sweet! So they only count as individuals if used in combination with Manufactured?
And I thought Eidolon class feature might work because Eidolon is well the class feature.
Oh and can you wear rings on tails and tentacles?
Ok, then is there any advantage to having multiple Natural Attacks, past the amount of attacks your BAB allows.
The fact that your primary attacks are made at your full BAB and secondaries at BAB-5 is really good. You never have to overcome the -10 or -15 penalty that later iteratives impose.A Ratfolk character with Sharptooth and Sharpclaw feats, for example, gets three attacks at full BAB. That's especially great if you have large static bonuses or can impose conditions with your attacks.
And the economy for an Amulet of Mighty Fists get better the more natural attacks you have. It's more expensive than enhancing a single weapon, but the cost/weapon drops off quickly as you get more natural attacks.
Edit: Ninja'd by Arcaian. :)
Yes, Natural Attacks, when used without manufactured weapons, are all made at your highest BAB as a Full-Round action. Some Natural Attacks are denoted as Secondary Natural Attacks... these use your highest BAB -5 and add only 1/2 STR on damage rolls. The Pounce special ability allows a full attack action at the end of a charge.
When combining Natural Attacks with Manufactured weapons, ALL Natural Attacks are considered secondary. Also, you cannot use a natural attack with the same limb that used a Manufactured weapon.
For example; Your Eidolon has a BAB of 10/5, Bite, 4 Tentacles, 2 Tails and 2 Wing attacks. Tail and Wing would be secondary attacks.
With a Full-Attack action your attacks would be: +10 Bite, +10 Tentacle, +10 Tentacle, +10 Tentacle, +10 Tentacle, +5 Tail, +5 Tail, +5 Wing and +5 Wing.
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Ok, then is there any advantage to having multiple Natural Attacks, past the amount of attacks your BAB allows.
(On unrelated note can a Eidolon take the Extra Evolution feat?)
You're not limited to an amount of natural attacks by your BAB - you receive as many natural attacks as you have. If you have 2 claws, a bite, and a slam, your full attack action includes all 4, even if you only have BAB = +1. BAB influences manufactured weapon's extra attacks, for the most part.
An eidolon cannot take the Extra Evolution feat, because it requires the Eidolon class feature, which it does not possess.
Sweet! So they only count as individuals if used in combination with Manufactured?
And I thought Eidolon class feature might work because Eidolon is well the class feature.
Oh and can you wear rings on tails and tentacles?
I'm not a huge expert on natural attack rules, but:
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
If you're combining natural and manufactured attacks, then you get all your normal manufactured attacks by your BAB, all your natural attacks are treated as secondary (1/2 STR mod not full to damage, BAB-5, not full BAB to hit), and any that rely on the same limbs as the manufactured weapon (almost always claws) can't be used at the same time. You're still not limited to your BAB limit for natural attacks.
Sadly the way it works is you can only take Extra Evolution if the creature taking it has an eidolon - the same thing comes up with Familiar Archetype feats - have to be taken by the owner.
As far as I know, rings are limited to fingers - if the text explicitly says a tentacle is treated as a hand, one might be able to. Not 100% sure on this front - never had to deal with tails and tentacles before.
Ok then all that's left is this: Is there a way to increase a Eidolons Max Natural Attacks.
As far as I know, rings are limited to fingers - if the text explicitly says a tentacle is treated as a hand, one might be able to. Not 100% sure on this front - never had to deal with tails and tentacles before.
The Tentacle Alchemist Discovery is the only place where I can remember this sort of thing being discussed. It says that "[u]nlike an arm, the tentacle has no magic item slots," but that rule could easily be limited to that specific tentacle rather than reflecting a more general principle.
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Can Eidolon's use magic items? If so, there are the standard things like the Helm of the Mammoth Lords. But I don't really know how Summoners work. Old school or Unchained.
They can use magic items, but the Summoner and Eidolon share magic item slots - can make it a bit annoying.
As far as I know, rings are limited to fingers - if the text explicitly says a tentacle is treated as a hand, one might be able to. Not 100% sure on this front - never had to deal with tails and tentacles before.The Tentacle Alchemist Discovery is the only place where I can remember this sort of thing being discussed. It says that "[u]nlike an arm, the tentacle has no magic item slots," but that rule could easily be limited to that specific tentacle rather than reflecting a more general principle.
True - I remember reading that, but I must've remembered it the opposite way around - given that it explicitly says it has no magic item slots, other things that function as arms and don't say it has no magic item slots must be able to use rings.
As a note- just to simplify things, it is best to avoid natural attacks that are noted as secondary (hoof, tentacle, wing, tail slap, and pincers).
They are usually not worth the effort to get. With an eidolon, it isn't too hard to get your maximum number of natural attacks (a feature only seen on eidolons, since they can get natural attacks so easily). Bite, two claws, and a sting on the tail. That will fill you up until level 9. Maybe grab some more arms with claws or tails with pincers after that (whatever you like without looking silly).
I vaguely think you can put some claws on one pair of feet due to rules weirdness for eidolons, but I am unsure if that has been restricted to quadrupeds only.
Let's say I grab someone using the Grab evolution. But I grab them with my Tentacles or Pincers, could I then pass them into my mouth, so that next round I can use the Devour Whole evolution to kill them?
Let's say I grab someone using the Grab evolution. But I grab them with my Tentacles or Pincers, could I then pass them into my mouth, so that next round I can use the Devour Whole evolution to kill them?
I am fairly sure the bite itself needs to have grab for the swallow whole evo (it says 'grappled using its bite attack').
You could grab with a tentacle, then then attack with a bite that has grab to maybe do such a pass... but that involves getting grab on both the bite and tentacle, and spending extra actions. Better to just put it on the bite alone and be direct with it.
Less likely to cause problems such as having to waste another turn to activate swallow whole since you used tentacles 1st turn, passed when you used the bite on the second turn, and started swallowing 3rd turn. If you are an eidolon, and the enemy survives 3 turns next to you anyway, then something went wrong.
Let's say I grab someone using the Grab evolution. But I grab them with my Tentacles or Pincers, could I then pass them into my mouth, so that next round I can use the Devour Whole evolution to kill them?I am fairly sure the bite itself needs to have grab for the swallow whole evo (it says 'grappled using its bite attack').
You could grab with a tentacle, then then attack with a bite that has grab to maybe do such a pass... but that involves getting grab on both the bite and tentacle, and spending extra actions. Better to just put it on the bite alone and be direct with it.
Less likely to cause problems such as having to waste another turn to activate swallow whole since you used tentacles 1st turn, passed when you used the bite on the second turn, and started swallowing 3rd turn. If you are an eidolon, and the enemy survives 3 turns next to you anyway, then something went wrong.
I was thinking get grab on both, then when I attack, (assuming from my info later that both natural attacks will attack) then even if one grab fails I still have a chance at another. As I am trying to grab them ASAP then devour them.
Swallow Whole
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If the eidolon begins its turn with a creature grappled using its bite attack (see the grab evolution), it can attempt a combat maneuver check to swallow the creature.
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The eidolon must possess the grab evolution, tied to a bite attack, to take this evolution. The summoner must be at least 9th level before selecting this evolution.
You cannot "pass" the tentacle grappled enemy to a bite grapple as if it were a sandwich. However, if you maintain the grapple to deal damage using the Bite you could attempt another grapple check to transfer it as "grappled using its bite attack", then use Swallow Whole your next turn.
To make better use of multiple tentacles and grab attempts, get the constrict evolution for extra damage until you successfully grapple to the bite for swallow whole. As its written, you could also constrict with your bite but you have to use serpentine form.
Also, I just noticed that Tentacles are Secondary attacks. Unless there is a way to make them Primary attacks I don't think its worth to evolution point investments to get a bunch of them.
4 Tentacle and Grab: Tentacle costs 6
Head, Bite, Limbs(arms) and Pincers cost 6 but you gain 3 Primary attacks and 2 chances to use Grab: Bite AND Swallow Whole. Pincers also gain a +2 bonus on grapple checks with Grab... to include the +4
Yep. That's the basis behind the Kali build.
Note that it does not work with the Unchained Summoner (which your GM may require you use, and which you certainly must use in PFS), as the language of the limitation has adjusted to apply to all attacks, natural and manufactured combined.