| Quairon Nailo |
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
So, i've been doing some research, and it looks like there is nothing preventing this two to stack. Please, allow me to explain before posting an opinion.
Let's start with the Elemental Ascetic class feature, Elemental Flurry. It says that it can make a Flurry of Blows,as the Monk class feature, and that one starts with the following line:
Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action.
Incidentally, the Unchained Monk class feature starts with the same line. So they both gives you access to a kind of action called "flurry of blows", which is performed as a full-round attack, right? This line is identical in both features, so there is no reason to think they are different kind of actions.
Now, the remaining text of both features is different. The monk one says:
So it gives you a number of bonuses that apply when you make a flurry of blows. Now, the unchained monk says.When doing so, he may make one additional attack, taking a –2 penalty on all of his attack rolls, as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. These attacks can be any combination of unarmed strikes and attacks with a monk special weapon (he does not need to use two weapons to utilize this ability).
For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
When making a flurry of blows, the monk can make one additional attack at his highest base attack bonus. This additional attack stacks with the bonus attacks from haste and other similar effects. When using this ability, the monk can make these attacks with any combination of his unarmed strikes and weapons that have the monk special weapon quality. He takes no penalty for using multiple weapons when making a flurry of blows, but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what's already granted by the flurry for doing so. (He can still gain additional attacks from a high base attack bonus, from this ability, and from haste and similar effects).
So it looks like it grants you a different set of bonuses that proc while performing a FoB.
As far as i can see, the wording is the same as the Feinting Flurry feat:
While using flurry of blows to make melee attacks, you can forgo your first attack to make a Bluff check to feint.
This means those 3 abilities work the same way: you ask yourself if you are making a Flurry of Blows: if the answer is yes, all of this effects will trigger (as long as you have them), that is, if you manage to get both the Unchained Monk and the Regular Monk flurry of blows (like multiclassing Unchained Monk and Elemental Ascetic), and you make a flurry of blows you will have 3 attacks, at a -2 each (and if you have the Feinting Flurry feat, you can forgo the first one to make a feint).
The RAW in all of this seems to stand, so the question is: is there anything that will make this not work? Any FaQ i missed or weird interaction i did not count on? Because if there is not, we might finally have a way to play an Elemental Ascetic that does not completely suck.
| Quairon Nailo |
The point is: You don't make two flurries, you make one, and gain the benefits from both classes, because they all proc "when you make a flurry of blows".
If there was no period between the first part and the rest, you would be right, but there is, so those are different sentences, and the second sentence in each class feature uses the same wording as Feinting Flurry, so if you can get the extra attack from the regular flurry AND forgo the first one to feint without having to use Full-Attack actions to use Flurry of Blows twice, then you can also get the extra attack from the Unchained Monk's ability.
Here's how it goes, first, you make a FAA to make a FoB.
Then you get to the regular monk class feature (because you are an elemental ascetic).
It says that when you make a flurry of blows, yo get an extra attack and a -2 penalty to all attacks.
Are you making a flurry of blows? YES.
So you get an extra attack and a -2 penalty to all attacks.
Now you read the Unchained Monk class feature.
It says that when you make a flurry of blows, you get an extra attack at full BAB.
Are you making a flurry of blows? YES.
So you get a second extra attack and at full BAB (but you still have the -2 penalty from the other class feature).
See? you don't need to make two flurries, you make one and proc all the efects that trigger with a flurry of blows, just like Feinting Flurry.
The Great Potato
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When doing so, he may make one additional attack, taking a –2 penalty on all of his attack rolls, as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.
He takes no penalty for using multiple weapons when making a flurry of blows, but he does not gain any additional attacks beyond what’s already granted by the flurry for doing so.
Unchained Flurry doesn't work with Two-Weapon Fighting. I guess you could argue that the Core Monk's flavor of TWF does stack because it can use a single weapon, but that'd be a hard sell at best imo.
As an aside, even if you're allowed both flurry bonuses Elemental Ascetic gives up way too many class abilities. The lack of Defense Talents and Elemental Overflow are a huge limitation - especially since you already get a few of the replacement abilities from your monk level. It's probably better in the long run to go Unchained Monk 1 / Vanilla Kineticist X.
| Quantum Steve |
OK, where to start...
First, You have 3 entirely distinct and separate abilities: Flurry of Blows(Monk), Flurry of Blows(Unchained Monk), Elemental Flurry.
Flurry of Blows(Monk) and Flurry of Blows(Unchained Monk) are entirely incompatible, if you have access to both you can do one or the other, but you can't do both at the same time and you can't get the bonuses from both in the same full-attack.
Second, Elemental Fury works like Flurry of Blows(Monk) not Flurry of Blows(Unchained Monk), but it's still a separate ability. If you had access to Elemental Flurry and Flurry of Blows, again you could do one or the other, you can't combine them in any way and levels from different classes don't stack.
Third Feinting Flurry can be used with any flurry of blows, regardless of the class the flurry comes from or the name of the ability, as loing as it let's you make a flurry of blows.