Hydra entry says the following:
However, the hydra also happens to be immune to area damage, which means acid and fire spells with areas, like fireball, can't do the damage required to cauterize the hydra's stumps.
But then why call out area attacks that deal damage, if that's not possible?
So which is it? Can fireball cauterize the stumps or not?
Oh I see. I thought immunity always applied to the whole creature.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My group ran into a hydra two weeks ago, and it took us a little work to figure out exactly how this worked ourselves (especially since Fantasy Grounds doesn't deal with a hydra's unique mechanics well). But Super Zero is correct. The heads are listed as immune to the area of effect damage, not the rest of the body. Similarly, the heads have weakness to slashing, while the body doesn't have that.
I feel like those are things that should have been more clearly spelled out. Leaving it to some slightly different formatting does not make it nearly as clear as it could be.
Our games have long had problems dealing with location damage. PF1's requirement for a sundering attack was even worse. Separate hit points for separate parts of a creature's body is an experiment that failed with Runequest. PF2's solution is kind of a hybrid, and not the worst way of handling it ever invented.
So if I sever a hydra's head, do I deduct the damage from the head to the body as well?
I see nothing that says the head and body's hit points are shared in its stat block, only that the head returns to full hit points at the end of any creature's turn if not severed. Since each head has its own hp, they seem to be functionally separate creatures, even if they don't have actions of their own.
That said, I did notice an interesting loophole, if you call it that. Splash damage is listed separately from area of effect damage with swarms, and hydra heads are not immune to splash damage, so if you can somehow get the splash damage up to 5, you could use three bombs to instantly behead a hydra (and cauterize their stumps, if using acid/fire).
Mind you, by the time you can get that much splash damage, a hydra would be a trivial opponent, but you could hand out bombs to PCs, have them ready, then have an alchemist with calculated splash hammer the hydra. Odd tactic, but it'd have been faster than what my party had to do. We nearly lost a PC or two.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Not sure that the loophole would work, Cydeth. It says the stumps need to be specially targeted. That makes me think you could cauterize them with splash, but that they wouldn't take splash damage since that is indirect and not targeted. What's more, the constant references to severing heavily imply the attack needs to be slashing or otherwise something that "severs."
...
What skill(s) might you use to Recall Knowledge with a hydra?
...
Does the weakness against slashing apply against only the heads, or the whole beast?
Edit: Nevermind. It's on the same line as the head HP and Immunity. My small phone screen inserted a line break making it look like the Weakness was its own line.
This is why you can't rely on formatting alone!
What's more, the constant references to severing heavily imply the attack needs to be slashing or otherwise something that "severs."
I wouldn't worry about that---such a requirement would be present as "Heads: Immune: bludgeoning, piercing." The use of the verb "sever" is just fluff.
This is the line that would make the loophole work:
If the attack that severs a head deals any acid or fire damage, the stump is cauterized instantly.
And the thing is, the heads just have to take 15 points of damage (assuming a basic hydra, of course) to be destroyed, at which point they're a stump whether you're using a greatsword or crossbow. Otherwise, they'd be immune to other types of damage, not weak to slashing. I mean, if someone melts off the entire face of a head with acid, that pretty much makes the head useless.
As for the knowledges used, the typical creature identification skills are listed on page 506 of the Core Rulebook, and for a Beast are usually Arcana or Nature.
Regarding your comment on formatting, I will simply disagree.
|
I feel like those are things that should have been more clearly spelled out. Leaving it to some slightly different formatting does not make it nearly as clear as it could be.
Another thing that could be more clearly spelled out is the actual effect of defeating the body. It has Regeneration, so that's not a route to killing it.
To kill the body, you need to cancel its Regeneration. The way to do that is to destroy and cauterize all heads... which instantly kills it anyway.Remember that alchemical bombs deal no splash damage on a critical failure, and that's not unlikely with a third attack (which requires Quick Draw or Quick Bomber, so passing them out isn't so useful). You've got to be level 10 to get that much splash damage anyway, I think.
The readied actions to simultaneously bomb is a rules quirk, but you have to know about the exact mechanics (and number of hit points) in advance to take advantage of it. That sounds like "We've dealt with these before; this time we're ready," and that's not so bad.
Oh, I didn't think it was likely. I just thought it was an interesting quirk of how an alchemist and his friends could kill a hydra quite a bit more easily than our debacle. But it also means that someone with a bomb could ready an action to hit a hydra and if they hit the main body, it'd cauterize all the stumps due to how the splash trait works.
I kind of like that alchemist bombs are better against hydras in some ways.
I wouldn't worry about that---such a requirement would be present as "Heads: Immune: bludgeoning, piercing." The use of the verb "sever" is just fluff.
But who decides what is and is not fluff? It's not like the rules are color-coded or anything. Seems to me like a bad can of worms to be opening.
This is the line that would make the loophole work:
If the attack that severs a head deals any acid or fire damage, the stump is cauterized instantly.
I think that's a reference to things like flaming swords and axes.
Nevertheless, I guess I can see a head getting melted or burnt away to nothingness with just acid or fire.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
But who decides what is and is not fluff? It's not like the rules are color-coded or anything. Seems to me like a bad can of worms to be opening.
The actual rule is that the heads have their own HP and are vulnerable to slashing. That makes cutting the heads off relatively easy, but it's not the only way to attack them (it wouldn't be a very good design if it was).
Severing doesn't require cutting anyway.