Another aqueous orb question

[Jaçinto]

So I was trying to decide on my next third level spell, since my spell choice is important as a sorcerer. I decided on something offensive rather than all the compulsions I have been taking and started to compare Fireball with Aqueous Orb.

Reading Aqueous Orb, I have some concerns.

If the orb enters the area of another creature, thus submerging them, what actually happens if they pass their saving throw? What is listed in the spell assumes they fail but, what if they pass? They do not become engulfed by the churning orb, yet they are still inside the orb because that is where it is. Can they just walk out, or do they have to follow swimming rules? Do they have to hold their breath, even though they did not get the chance to get a full breath of air before hand and thus inhaling would fill their lungs with water? Is it difficult terrain for them to walk out, if that is how it is? Are there difficult terrain rules for swimming, since the water is churning? What happens if I use it as a readied action on a spell caster as they are now submerged in water while they were trying to cast a spell? It says they may attempt a reflex throw to escape, but shouldn't escape rely on a swim check as well and the reflex just means you can actually attempt it? What if someone is in a ten foot by ten foot space and the orb takes up that space, but they pass their save?

These have probably been asked before, but I can not find the answers.

[Rub-Eta]

If they succeed their save, they are not inside the orb or even in contact with water, they will have no problems. The orb itself is not diffucult terrain, as you really can't traverse it. Looking at what happens if you succeed your save at a later stage, you escape into an adjacent square. This could and probably should also be adopted in this case (the same way Create Pit works in this regard), so that you don't start your turn within the same squares.

A spell caster needs to concentrate because of the nonleathal damage and the Entangled condition to not lose his spell. So he needs to make two checks, one for each.

Swim does not come into action with this spell, even though it involves water.

I have to say, Aqueous Orb is one of my most used spells, it's somewhat of a signature spell to my Wizard in my group. There's great versatility in it, simply providing an obstacle or moving one to several creatures around/away is really nice. I've only used Fireball a few times, mostly I've found martials doing that part better than what the spell slot was worth.

[Jaçinto]

But in the RAW there is nothing about moving to an adjacent square at all. Also, RAW, it is underwater in rough waters so it should be difficult terrain. Am I reading wrong? I need more clarification.

[Jayder22]

You have a lot of questions, so I am going to try to parse them and answer one at a time.

Jacinto wrote:

If the orb enters the area of another creature, thus submerging them

False. The creature only is submerged if it fails 2 saves in a row. If they pass the first saving throw, they take no damage and are not effected at all. If they fail the first but make the second, they take 2d6 damage and that is all. You don't get to add things that the spell doesn't say.

Jacinto wrote:

What is listed in the spell assumes they fail but, what if they pass?

If they pass the saving throw, they are not affected by the orb.

Jacinto wrote:

They do not become engulfed by the churning orb, yet they are still inside the orb because that is where it is.

They are not in the orb, they are sharing a square with it. You could rule this however you want. The orb doesn't take up a 10ft square of mass, it is a roiling ball of water. They could be hugging the outside edge of it, while still being in their square.

Jacinto wrote:

Can they just walk out, or do they have to follow swimming rules?

Again, The spell only does what it says, If they make their save, they are not in the orb, so they can walk out.

Jacinto wrote:

Do they have to hold their breath,even though they did not get the chance to get a full breath of air before hand and thus inhaling would fill their lungs with water?

If they made their save, no. If they failed 2 saves in a row and are engulfed, they can hold their breath because the spell specifically says they have to.

Jacinto wrote:

Is it difficult terrain for them to walk out, if that is how it is?

This is unclear by the spell. It doesn't say it makes the area difficult terrain, so I would lean to no, but the GM is perfectly within his right to say it is.

Jacinto wrote:

Are there difficult terrain rules for swimming, since the water is churning?

Seems irrelevant because you cannot swim in the orb. If you are engulfed, you need a save to get out, if you are not engulfed, you are not swimming.

Jacinto wrote:

What happens if I use it as a readied action on a spell caster as they are now submerged in water while they were trying to cast a spell? It says they may attempt a reflex throw to escape, but shouldn't escape rely on a swim check as well and the reflex just means you can actually attempt it?

If the spellcaster fails both saves, taking 2d6 damage and than being engulfed by the orb, if the spell has any verbal components, he would lose it. Otherwise, he would need to make 2 concentration checks, one for taking damage (10+damage taken + spell level) and one for being entangled (15+spell level) or lose the spell.

Jacinto wrote:

What if someone is in a ten foot by ten foot space and the orb takes up that space, but they pass their save?

If they make their save, they are not engulfed or in the orb at all, but they are still sharing a space with it.