Evil PC have a good familiar


Advice


I have a pc Anti paladin he is level 5 show up with a Blink Dog as a familiar ? i didn't catch it till I looks over the next adventure. Is this even possible ? If not is there a spot the defines that Evil needs to take an evil familiar?


I don't knkw any way for anyone to have a blink dog as a familiar, but looking at the improved familiar list they all have alignment restrictions.

There is also the question of how an antipaladin is getting a familiar at all. I know there are ways to do it, but at this level it would take most or all of his feats.

Bottom line, this is sketchy bordering on flat wrong. Needs a complete character sheet audit.


Java Man wrote:

I don't knkw any way for anyone to have a blink dog as a familiar, but looking at the improved familiar list they all have alignment restrictions.

There is also the question of how an antipaladin is getting a familiar at all. I know there are ways to do it, but at this level it would take most or all of his feats.

Bottom line, this is sketchy bordering on flat wrong. Needs a complete character sheet audit.

i will get it this weekend. i am new to Dm'ing and pathfinder


No, improved familiars have to be within one alignment step (if not more restricted, which some are). If it's through Fiendish Boon (not actually a familiar), it has to be chaotic evil.


Texas_ogre wrote:
I have a pc Anti paladin he is level 5 show up with a Blink Dog as a familiar ? i didn't catch it till I looks over the next adventure. Is this even possible ? If not is there a spot the defines that Evil needs to take an evil familiar?

I know exactly what your PC did. Technically, it's very possible for your PC to obtain a Fiendish Blink Dog... with your permission.

Fiendish Boon:

"The second type of bond allows an antipaladin to gain the service of a fiendish servant. This functions as summon monster III, except the duration is permanent and the antipaladin can only gain the service of a single creature and that creature must either have the chaotic and evil subtypes or it must be a fiendish animal."

Summon Monster:

"Creatures on Table: Summon Monster marked with an "*" are summoned with the celestial template, if you are good, and the fiendish template, if you are evil. If you are neutral, you may choose which template to apply to the creature. Creatures marked with an "*" always have an alignment that matches yours, regardless of their usual alignment. Summoning these creatures makes the summoning spell's type match your alignment."

Blink Dogs have an asterisk, therefore it is whatever his alignment is, and gains the Fiendish template qualifying it for Fiendish Boon.

The issue here is Blink Dogs are on the alternate SM3 list. Normally, you're not allowed to use this list, without DM permission, as it typically is from specific APs.

So in short, yes he CAN have a fiendish blink dog, if you allow him to. Otherwise, he can't, and he is reduced to the normal SM3 options.

Consult this for list of all the lists, and alternates.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/summon-monster


there is a wizard archetype that allows for familiars against your alignment, but that is a specific archetype only for wizards and blink dogs are not on the familiar list anyways.

now in 3.5 d&d there was a feat for a blink dog familiar but that is not pathfinder.


Abraham spalding wrote:

there is a wizard archetype that allows for familiars against your alignment, but that is a specific archetype only for wizards and blink dogs are not on the familiar list anyways.

now in 3.5 d&d there was a feat for a blink dog familiar but that is not pathfinder.

It's not a familiar, it's a Fiendish Boon. I stated exactly how it's rules legal for OPs player to do so, the question is if OP is allowing him access to the SM3 alternate summoning list or not.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

I think that list of summoned monsters at d20pfsrd.com has an error in regard to Blink Dogs. I cannot find a primary Paizo source that says that a summoned Blink Dog can have the Celestial or Fiendish template, and allowing that for a lawful good magical beast (as opposed to a neutral animal) makes no sense to me. I think that whoever added that creature as an alternate summonable creature forgot that Blink Dogs are not animals.


David knott 242 wrote:

I think that list of summoned monsters at d20pfsrd.com has an error in regard to Blink Dogs. I cannot find a primary Paizo source that says that a summoned Blink Dog can have the Celestial or Fiendish template, and allowing that for a lawful good magical beast (as opposed to a neutral animal) makes no sense to me. I think that whoever added that creature as an alternate summonable creature forgot that Blink Dogs are not animals.

AP 41

"Customized Summon List
Nethys’s priests can use summon monster spells to
summon the following creatures in addition to the
normal creatures listed in the spells. Blink dogs can
be found in the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2.
Summon Monster III
Blink dog*
Summon Monster V
Cloaker*
* This creature is summoned with the celestial
template if you are good, or with the fiendish
template if you are evil; you may choose either if you
are neutral."

It's supposed to be meant only for Nethys worshipers, but it's still on the alternate list, and it can definitely have a celestial, or fiendish template. Still comes down to the OP approving it or not.


Heretek wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:

there is a wizard archetype that allows for familiars against your alignment, but that is a specific archetype only for wizards and blink dogs are not on the familiar list anyways.

now in 3.5 d&d there was a feat for a blink dog familiar but that is not pathfinder.

It's not a familiar, it's a Fiendish Boon. I stated exactly how it's rules legal for OPs player to do so, the question is if OP is allowing him access to the SM3 alternate summoning list or not.

OP asked about a familiar.

I understand you are addressing a different situation where he could access one through a specific means, and it could be how the character is getting one, however I was addressing the familiar end of things.

So together we have effectively answered the question:

The character cannot do it as a familiar, he might be doing it as a fiendish boon and doing so could (would?) be legal providing the points you addressed are covered.


So this would have to be a summon monster not a familiar? After reading up on anti paladins . I think he is trying to pull one over. The write up says they needed to be CE he is LE, He is running with a mostly good party. He is says he has a feat that hides his alignment from the book on Intrigue . Between work and kids hard for me to search every thing that he is doing. Thanks for the input


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

intrigue added archtype to anti-paladin that allows LE. there is almost no change to the class other then alignment change. This was done after Way of the wicked AP came out and everyone realized a LE anti paladin still functions and functions well.

They just remove the stupid alignment restriction. Consider 1st and 2nd edition anti paladins where Lawful Evil(the typical blank knight). Was not until 3rd until they changed it into a Prestige class called the black guard that it became CE, it kind of got stuck on it's conversion over to pathfinder when it was changed to base class alternate and rename back to the original name.

Honestly if you don't have time you should limit the number of books you allow in your game, classes and feats, until you master them over time. master one book then allow another.

edit here is link to FAQ with the other changes that goes with archtype, it was minor things they forgot to change because that how trival the aligment change is. Hopeful this will happen soon to the paladin. Their aligment you have to match their God's and not limited to LG LE and CE.
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1h8#v5748eaic9ukm


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Texas_ogre wrote:
Between work and kids hard for me to search every thing that he is doing.

No need for you do to that. If he is doing anything you don't understand, he needs to research and present you the evidence that it is legal. If it remains unconvincing to you, it is your game and you can disallow it.


Texas_ogre wrote:
So this would have to be a summon monster not a familiar? After reading up on anti paladins . I think he is trying to pull one over. The write up says they needed to be CE he is LE, He is running with a mostly good party. He is says he has a feat that hides his alignment from the book on Intrigue . Between work and kids hard for me to search every thing that he is doing. Thanks for the input

It is not a familiar, and it is not an animal companion. It is a permanent summon monster. Despite this, if the creature dies he suffers a penalty.

As mentioned, there is a Tyrant archetype which allows LE Antipaladins now.

Something tells me he is hiding his alignment through the Mask of Virtue Damnation feat, though that's from Champions of Corruption, not Ultimate Intrigue, and he needs to make a deal with a devil and damn his soul to obtain such a thing.

My impression honestly is something tells me neither you, or this player are familiar with Pathfinder, and he's just scouring the internet to find every little thing he can use since you likely gave him no limitations. This way of thinking combined with inexperience can often result in people utilizing things very, very incorrectly.


Dave Justus wrote:
Texas_ogre wrote:
Between work and kids hard for me to search every thing that he is doing.

No need for you do to that. If he is doing anything you don't understand, he needs to research and present you the evidence that it is legal. If it remains unconvincing to you, it is your game and you can disallow it.

So much this and what Heretek just said.

If you all are new there is no reason to try and use everything at once. You can (and really should) lock down what is available for use until you feel easy with the material.

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