Is this game system launching with a beginner box?
There is no Beginner Box planned at this time.
I am hopeful that you will find the core rules approachable enough that you won't need one.
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Vic Wertz wrote: There is no Beginner Box planned at this time.. A box with a newbie GM small rule book and intro adventure (first few levels or equivalent), a small newbie friendly players guide, some pre-generated SF PCs, dice, pawns/tokens, a double-sided battlement, and a price that is a good deal and makes a great introduction to the system/ a good gift?
Nah, I see no use for this. ;)
The Pathfinder Beginner box was brilliant and is how I got back into "DnD" with my kid (and her friends). If you're saying the core rules for Starfinder are like the simplified rules in the Pathfinder Beginner box then that's a good start. But the beginner box also provided the means for a GM to dive right in with the players with almost zero prep.
Maybe my experience was unique and the Beginner Box didn't sell well? Otherwise I can't see a reason why Starfinder wouldn't launch with one. Nevermind my kids, I personally don't want to dive all into another RPG without a "beginner box" to try out / dive in.
Just my 2c.
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The Beginner Box has sold very well, and it's really good at doing the two things it was designed for: 1) making the game easier to learn, and 2) giving you an adventure and a pile of goodies to make that adventure easy to run.
I am hopeful that we won't need to make Starfinder easier to learn. That doesn't mean we won't find a way to give you easy-to-run adventure content, but if we do, the form it takes may not necessarily be the same as a product that's meant to teach you the game.
Also, boxed sets are expensive to produce. Making a boxed set for a new, unproven RPG would be a risky proposition.
But even if we felt there was little risk, having a product like that ready at launch is really hard to pull off. Giving you an adventure that launches alongside the rules is already difficult, because unless you have the luxury of finishing the rules and then starting the adventure, you have to develop the adventure while the rules it relies on are still in process. This creates inefficiencies—extra revisions, more effort needed to catch things that rely on other things that change during the process. We've committed to doing that for the Adventure Path that we're launching alongside the rules, but that is likely as far as we can go without driving ourselves crazy.
And the adventure is actually the easier part of a box to get done quickly. A boxed sets wants stuff like maps and tokens, and it's hard to order art for those things until the adventure is written and developed (unless you handcuff the writer to a limited slate in advance, which tends to result in a less interesting adventure). This is why the map folios and pawn sets for our Adventure Paths usually come out after the AP has been completed.
So the ideal process, Finish the Rules > Write the Adventure > Create the Accessories, makes it really hard to launch with something like that, even if we believe the demand is there.
So basicly you are telling there won't be a boxed set for this? Not even after launch? cause that would really be a bummer. I mean the Pathfinder beginner box gave you all the esentials for you to play plus tokens, maps, character folios and stuff...Won't there be another similar boxed set for Starfinder? cause collecting all those stuff plus the core rulebook could be quite expensive...
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I definitely did not rule out a boxed set. I was specifically addressing the question "Is this game system launching with a Beginner Box?" The first part of my post was explaining that Starfinder and Pathfinder don't necessarily have the same needs when it comes to what a box set might entail, so mapping the "Beginner Box" concept directly over wasn't necessarily the right plan, and the later part of my post was explaining why having such a thing at launch wasn't a likely proposition.
For now, all I have to say is that the concept has been considered, and that we haven't announced anything yet.
I would definitely vouch for a beginner box of Starfinder. I had the core rulebook for Pathfinder and was very bogged down by all the details and didn't know where to start (being a very new GM and player) - and then came the Beginner's box and all was clear and fun and quick to start.
Is there a beginner's introduction of some sort in the Starfinder Core Rulebook? Is that why you're hoping that you won't need a beginner's box? I'm honestly curious about this, I haven't had the chance of checking out Starfinder yet.
First post, sorry for my opinion with a lack of experience or rep. I do have an MBA if that helps =D (We love rounded and estimated math!)
I think not having a beginner's box is a huge mistake from a marketing standpoint. In fact, it should have been the FIRST priority and used to introduce the game to the masses as a teaser with the Core Rulebook coming out slightly afterwards or simultaneously.
As someone that is just now getting into tabletops, I've purchased both the Pathfinder and DnD 5e beginner boxes in the past couple months. The Pathfinder one, is btw, far superior to the DnD version...kudos to Paizo on that. I really appreciated the Beginner's Box.
I realize that for a veteran tabletop gamer, the Core rulebook and AA probably suffice just fine...and it might not seem complex. But let's be honest, you're trying to push a new IP/game out to the market, you probably want new customers and to create a new market rather than cannibalizing your current market, and many of the people you draw in may be completely unfamiliar with DnD/Pathfinder. I know I was personally disappointed that there was no beginner's box equivalent for Starfinder; I'm sure I'm not unique. When I read through the Starfinder Core Rulebook, I was pretty confused especially when it came to things like creating a Mechanic's drone.
This is all not to mention that everything about Starfinder is "new" and unconventional, or modified from Pathfinder. You can't simply glean knowledge by knowing traditional fantasy like with elves, dwarves, swords, etc. How am I supposed to know that a Lashunta is good or bad with a plasma rifle? (making up an example). There's so much in-between-the-cracks knowledge that a Begginer's Box could help fill in.
The classes are completely new, the races are completely new, the worlds are completely new. The game is more complicated than Pathfinder. Multiple ACs, the character sheet is a mathball, new stuff EVERYWHERE.
How this doesn't specifically warrant an "easy entrance" product is beyond me. And some pawns would be nice, especially with absolutely no miniatures out in the market for the near and intermediate future.
I know it would really be terrible to make more money by having a Beginner's Box, because you'd have to put investment dollars into creating it, but I think you should consider it. The folks that I know that convinced me to start looking into tabletop gaming hadn't even heard of Starfinder...I introduced it to them. And they have played both DnD and Pathfinder. They seem interested in trying it out, but trying to convince them to try it without a Beginner's box is challenging because the investment is higher (people like books more than PDFs because it's kind of a pain to reference a PDF on the fly).
If anything, release a bunch of pre-gen characters like with Pathfinder. Those were handy.
Vic Wertz wrote: I am hopeful that we won't need to make Starfinder easier to learn. Complexity isn't an issue here. But we're talking about a rulebook that is 528 pages long. Five hundred and twenty eight. Pages. Long.
I think you're probably living in the same world as me, a world with enough free time and interests in the matter at hand that half a dozen hundred pages seems like an A-Okay entry point.
But for anyone who isn't a "geek" it's not. And I don't think that "casual" roleplayers are going to feel welcomed in the Starfinder universe if the current rulebook is good enough as an entry point in Paizo's eyes.
Then again, Paizo probably already thought this inside out and considered it not worth the cost. But saying "meh, this untapped and enormous market really isn't worth it" strikes me as both odd and potentially snooty toward the "unworthy plebs". Especially when a certain competitor of yours managed to squeeze its manual size to half that number and produce a beginner box to attract a wider audience than the basement dwellers it's been associated with for so long.
Not picking sides here, I love RPGs as a whole, and I think it has the potential to reach a way larger part of the population that it currently does. It deserves it. What worries me here is a strategy that I can only attribute to a disconnection between what seems acceptable to game designers that makes a living out of breathing life into fantasy and what's acceptable for the average Joe that have multiple hobbies and only so much time to dedicate to something as ressource intensive as RPGs.
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Videmus wrote: If anything, release a bunch of pre-gen characters like with Pathfinder. Those were handy. There we have you covered! Starfinder pregens
Thank you! For some reason, I've searched your site and those did not pop up...I managed to find the Pathfinder ones with few issues.
Still need a beginner's box though =D
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i am hoping that starfinder is as successful as it appears to be and we get a lot more content for it , its really my fav new rpg in a very long time
Videmus wrote: (people like books more than PDFs because it's kind of a pain to reference a PDF on the fly). In my experience it's much much easier to ues a search command in a pdf than to flip pages in a print book when trying to find an obscure rule or something you think you remember.
I really hate when people stop game play to read page after page of material because "I know it's in here somewhere"
Frustration goes up exponentially the more print volumes that need to be checked.
CrystalSeas wrote: Videmus wrote: (people like books more than PDFs because it's kind of a pain to reference a PDF on the fly). In my experience it's much much easier to ues a search command in a pdf than to flip pages in a print book when trying to find an obscure rule or something you think you remember.
I really hate when people stop game play to read page after page of material because "I know it's in here somewhere"
Frustration goes up exponentially the more print volumes that need to be checked. In general I would agree with that, but the subject of the post was about Beginner's Boxes, not obscure rules.
I think people prefer something tangible to hold and read when they're getting started rather than sifting through a lifeless PDF.
Well, I run a lot of Pathfinder Beginner Box sessions. As a matter of fact, that is mostly all that I GM.
So, in my experience running Beginner Box sessions, it's much easier to use a search command in a pdf than to wait while someone tries to remember whether the point they're trying to make was discussed in Hero's Handbook or in the Game Master's Guide. And even when they remember which book it is in, it's still painful as they go through trying to find the sentence.
What you imagine about how "people" act when they are learning to play RPGs may be true for you, but has not been borne out by my experience. There is an occasional player who prefers print while playing, but not many. Mostly they're on their phones looking everything up on the fly.
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CrystalSeas wrote: Well, I run a lot of Pathfinder Beginner Box sessions. As a matter of fact, that is mostly all that I GM.
So, in my experience running Beginner Box sessions, it's much easier to use a search command in a pdf than to wait while someone tries to remember whether the point they're trying to make was discussed in Hero's Handbook or in the Game Master's Guide. And even when they remember which book it is in, it's still painful as they go through trying to find the sentence.
What you imagine about how "people" act when they are learning to play RPGs may be true for you, but has not been borne out by my experience. There is an occasional player who prefers print while playing, but not many. Mostly they're on their phones looking everything up on the fly.
So, then you're saying you run a lot of sessions with players who have Beginner's Boxes?
The reason I ask is, the thread is about the value of a Beginner's Box being created for Starfinder. Your quoted post seems to suggest immense value to a Beginner's Box, because that's nearly all the games you run.
Reference rules however you would like of course, but obviously the players are getting great value out of the boxes and the boxes are selling quite well if you get that much Beginner Box exposure.
Starfinder could use that, which is the point of the thread.
You're speaking from the position of a veteran gamer and a GM, and seem to confirm the disconnect I'm suggesting exists between seasoned players and beginners. Beginner Boxes are for beginners.
You can learn anything by having all the information dumped on you (full core rulebook and AA) and figuring it out yourself, but it's certainly not the most comfortable way of learning things. When you're trying to get new players you want them to be comfortable with what's going on or...they'll get frustrated and perhaps quit.
No, my post does not suggest "immense value" for a STARFINDER Beginner Box.
You probably don't know the history of Pathfinder and why a Beginner Box is important for that rules system.
You probably also haven't done your research to discover how big the regular product list was for Pathfinder before staff created the Beginner Box. By that timescale, we're a long, long way from a Starfinder Beginner Box even being considered. [which it already has been]
Starfinder fixes most of those problems from the beginning, right there in the Core Rule book. There's no need launch with a new product written for just for beginners, since they've already been addressed.
Explaining how to get new players into the game isn't going to impress anyone, especially those of us who have a great deal of experience getting new players into the game. See, for instance, the post by Wertz, above.
CrystalSeas wrote: No, my post does not suggest "immense value" for a STARFINDER Beginner Box.
You probably don't know the history of Pathfinder and why a Beginner Box is important for that rules system.
You probably also haven't done your research to discover how big the regular product list was for Pathfinder before staff created the Beginner Box. By that timescale, we're a long, long way from a Starfinder Beginner Box even being considered. [which it already has been]
Starfinder fixes most of those problems from the beginning, right there in the Core Rule book. There's no need launch with a new product written for just for beginners, since they've already been addressed.
Explaining how to get new players into the game isn't going to impress anyone, especially those of us who have a great deal of experience getting new players into the game. See, for instance, the post by Wertz, above.
Well that's a lot of assumption about what I do and do not know, but I'll let you keep on assuming. If you think there isn't a need for a Beginner's Box, that's your opinion and I won't knock it. As someone who IS a new player, I'll just respectfully disagree and say that I would find value in that product despite already owning the Core Rulebook and AA.
I'll just be over here sulking, trying to devise new and improved ways to impress tabletop RPG players since that approach did not achieve success!
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Weird.
Did you read the staff posts?
CrystalSeas wrote: Did you read the staff posts? Yes, I did.
Unfortunately, despite the fact that I've purchased the Starfinder rulebook and AA, my opinion no longer matters anymore because my group on Slack has decided that they want to try out SW:EOTE instead.
They weren't sure how they were going to like the feel of the futuristic setting over the fantasy setting of Pathfinder/DnD, so the three of them went in on a beginner's box on Amazon. And they apparently think it'll be easier to get people to try a well-known IP since we struggled to find enough people to even run a game of PF initially.
Can't say I disagree with the last point since everyone I've asked to play has cringed when you mention "DnD" but them not wanting to try a fresh space IP is frustrating. Guess I'll be learning to DM some cliché junk this weekend and figuring out funny looking dice instead. At least I'm only out 20 bucks on the PDFs.
See ya on the PF forum.
Launch into an exciting universe of science fantasy adventure with the Starfinder Beginner Box! Create and customize your own futuristic hero to play through challenging adventures and action-packed battles against dangerous foes! With streamlined rules, this deluxe boxed set is the ideal introduction to the Starfinder Roleplaying Game, an imaginative tabletop roleplaying game for 2-7 players. Welcome to the best launchpad for a lifetime of pulse-pounding adventure among the stars—the only limit is your imagination!
Cool.
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Bought mine last week! As beginning player and most of all GM, this is a god send in some aspects. I haven't DM'd or GM'd in over 30 years. My main habit back then was the 2d6 Traveller and Gamma World. So I hope to get my players started on some one shots, then spring the first AP on them, which I've also been reading and researching. (a certain podcast is good for that too) But the box set is a great addition to the Core Rulebook.. imho..
I picked up a Beginner Box a few days ago at my local store out here. I was thinking demo potential, plus some of the useful bits like the play aid cards. I've already got a Core Rulebook, and set of various items.
I was pleased to see that I could fit my GM screen and Combat Tracker into the box, along with my Condition Cards, Critical Hit Cards, and a set of the Pathfinder Starship Decks tiles. Super handy.
I just got a copy of the SFBB today. Haven't really gotten into Starfinder, but I am exploring the box and it's contents.
I prepped also by getting the first portions of two adventure paths so if we get beyond the first adventure in the box, we have other adventures to try out.
I am looking up some of the rules online to figure out what some terms in the AP volumes mean vs. those in the BB.
I know they are REALLY busy right now, but something in the future that might help is an online supplement to aid in understanding how to convert between BB and standard SF rules.
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