| SacredRealmRascal |
I'm an AP-prone casual gamer playing my first PF campaign (not the first RPG though). The tone of the campaign is somewhat light, but we're invested in the role-playing, enjoy the rules and tactics, have a great time and are in it for the long haul.
Campaign restrictions:
- CRB and APG only
- Improved Critical feat and Keen weapon ability are not available (but we still utilize existing crit ranges on weapons like rapier, etc.)
My request for advice is a result of my being overwhelmed by the plethora of options (even though we're CRB/APG only) combined with the glut of well-established recommendations for Bards. My goal is solicit recommendations for feats and spells to ensure - even though we're a fun-loving and creative group - that I'm able to effectively support the group into high-levels.
To facilitate discussion, here's my character so far:
The Fool
CN Human Bard 4
HP: 36 (highest in the group, interestingly)
STR:10 - DEX:16 - CON:10 - INT:13 - WIS:10 - CHA:16
FEATS: Lingering Performance, Toughness, Craft Wondrous Item
SPELLS:
[0] Summon Instrument, Ghost Sound, Light, Message, Detect Magic, Read Magic
[1] Charm Person, Silent Image, Grease, Cure Light Wounds
[2] Glitterdust, Invisibility
THE OTHER PC's
- Half-Orc Sorcerer who enjoys blasting, summoning, and spying
- Human Monk focusing presently on battlefield mobility and Cleave progression
- Rogue of noble upbringing pursuing a ranged attack feat progression
Without going too into campaign details, The Fool is definitely going to get Magical Aptitude to support Crafting Wondrous Items (along with the Sorcerer's help re: Cooperative Crafting). I've also found myself in the thick of combat with the Monk more often than not and we've been doing okay. Moving forward, though, I'm pretty stuck.
For the sake of discussion, here are a few things I was considering (all of which I'd consider "brainstorming" so I could take or leave any of them):
- Being in the fray one way or another since the Sorcerer and Rogue aren't presently interested in being melee focused ... if so, I figure I'd dip two levels of Fighter for Arcane Strike and Weapon Finesse as well as focus on flanking support for Monk, summoned creatures, and Rogue (re: Outflank, Gang-Up) ... this strategy also suggests focusing on Buffs/Debuffs based on the number of attackers we'd have as well as battlefield control.
- Skill Focus: Comedy to max/enhance Intimidate and Bluff (via Versatile Performance) for additional combat options
- Combat Reflexes or TWF just to get more out of action economy and help the team as a melee person ... but I keep thinking that I should just play to my strengths re: Buffs/Debuffs to address action economy ... not to mention my 3/4 BAB >:-(
- Dirty Tricks ... but despite how fun I *think* it would be, it seems like NPC CMD will outpace me quickly
If I was forced to commit right now, it'd be something along the lines of the first bullet, but even if I did commit to that, I'd still be stuck regarding what the right mix of feats and spells would be to support that strategy.
The thread which most closely addresses my nebulous feelings is probably this one: paizo.com/threads/rzs2palo?Debuff-bard
Thank you in advance for reading this far as well as your constructive thoughts. I appreciate it. ^__^
- The Fool of the Sacred Realm Rascals
| Arachnofiend |
Bards are pretty effective just by existing. I think that, given your stat array and the lack of newer options that make pumping dexterity for a DPR role viable, you may want to focus on Aid Another so that the Monk has room to pump damage. You would only ever need to be able to hit an AC of 10 and can help shore up the Monk's likely-terrible accuracy. Combat Reflexes+Bodyguard can help prevent them from getting smacked around, too.
I generally prefer going for a supplemental damage build for Bards but that's not going to be possible with what you've already built.
| Paladin of Baha-who? |
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Bards are one of the best designed classes, and IMO the best in the CRB. Not the most powerful (that would be Wizard) but the best designed. You get something new and fun every level, and you get to boost everyone's effectiveness which makes everyone like you.
One thing I note is that you have no divine character, and so your bard is going to be the healer by default. Take ranks in Heal and Use Magic Device, get a Healer's kit, and stock up on antitoxin and antiplague. You'll need to be the one who uses the wand of cure light wounds, and uses UMD to cast scrolls of lesser restoration, neutralize poison, remove blindness/deafness, etc. Until you can afford such scrolls, the mundane healing methods will have to suffice.
Focus on archery in combat and use a long spear for when you need to join the fray. Help the monk and rogue hit by flanking and aid another.
| 'Sani |
Only advise I can give is the spell Saving Finale, from the APG. You end your performance when your friend fails a save, and they get to immediately reroll the saving through.
It's not a major spell, and you may never have to use it. But if you ever DO need it, your party will be very, very glad you have it.
| SacredRealmRascal |
Thank you for the prompt replies and positive attitudes; I appreciate it. Your thoughts are good examples of what I'm looking for: a bit of guidance about useful ways to constructively contribute to combat within the limitations of my build/campaign. I'll take a moment to consider synergies for an Aid Another strategy; for example, it seems like Flanking and Aid Another are complimentary. Additionally, the support-role nature of this facet of The Fool's strategy is very much in line with his backstory.
Re: Aid Another ... not to go overboard on Aid Another, but is it crazy to consider the Pathfinder Chronicler prestige class (re: Improved Aid ... seems like it could be nutty with Combat Expertise and Bodyguard)? I'll take a moment to research Chronicler just to see what it's about; there's probably some significant trade-off to consider, but I find the idea of summoning 2d4 barbarian constructs to be humorously appealing, especially as additional recipients of Inspire Courage.
Re: Saving Finale ... definite YES; it lines up nicely with a healing role as well. Also, it seems to work nicely with Lingering Performance; that is, the effects of whatever performance I end for the Finale will linger for two rounds (or until I start another one) if I understand it correctly.
Re: Healing ... I actually forgot to mention that the Monk took one level of Cleric at CL4, but IIRC he's not dipping deeper. However, it does mean that I won't be entirely alone on the Healing tip.
I've been keeping a running list of feat and spells that keep appearing on peoples' lists of "excellent stuff for Bards", but if any others come to mind that offer either a compelling variety of uses or have a uniquely powerful (yet not TOO specific) "silver bullet" characteristic (sort of like Saving Finale, it seems like), feel free to sound off about it. I'm pretty open (obviously).
Charon's Little Helper
|
I wouldn't dip into fighter - just straight bard. Even without Fencing Grace, you can be a decent combatant with Weapon Finesse & Arcane Strike.
For traits - take Armor Expert - see if you can afford a mithril breastplate & get a darkwood heavy shield & a weapon strap for your rapier. This will get you into very solid AC. I wouldn't bother with Aid Another - but with tumble you make a great flank buddy. (letting the monk do a full flurry)
So - while you won't be dealing tons of damage (frankly - it looks like no one will be) you will be rather tanky, and your buffing means that they can't afford to just ignore you.
If you do get Saving Finale - you might consider taking Lingering Performance so that your Inspire Courage keeps working after you use it.
| Abraham spalding |
Advice for an effective bard:
1. Good Hope
2. Haste
3. Inspire Courage
4. Whatever in the heck you want.
Honestly at that point you have increased your party's output to insane levels.
Before level 7
1. Inspire Courage
2. Whatever you want
Beyond that I like inspire gallantry and saving finale as the others have mentioned. Sift is a quick and fun spell to get through searching fast (but have a good perception check). Mirror image is a good defense for a bard for quite a while.
And even through you are level 4 alchemical items still offer a good punch, I've seen a weretiger die to a tanglefoot bag because the poor GM just couldn't roll over a 3 to get it out and everyone in the party had reach weapons (or ranged weapons).
Personally I wouldn't go into chronicler until after 7th level, but that's just because of how awesome good hope and haste are.
Markov Spiked Chain
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I'd definitely stick to Bard until 7th, for 3rd level spells and to Perform as a move action. Dipping fighter or going Chronicler aren't crazy after that, but 7th is a big bump.
Grab Timely Inspiration and Gallant Inspiration as well. Timely Inspiration saving a miss-by-one will make everyone happy.
Charon's Little Helper
|
Grab Timely Inspiration and Gallant Inspiration as well. Timely Inspiration saving a miss-by-one will make everyone happy.
The bad thing is that they don't stack with Inspire Courage. (Those are actually better for Skalds and some specific bard archetypes which don't have Inspire Courage.)