DR vs Weapon Enhancement

[ckdragons]

Would a +5 weapon (no other enhancements) bypass DR: 10/good and silver? I know that it normally bypasses either DR/good or silver but not sure the weapon would bypass both at the same time.

IMHO, not a fan of how weapon enchantment bonuses can be used to bypass certain DRs. It really cheapens the effectiveness of DR after PCs acquire +3 weapons. But I understand why it's there (so PCs don't have to carry a weapon shop of weapons when they adventure).

[Chess Pwn]

yes. At +3 the weapons counts for cold iron and silver.
At +4 it also counts as alignment.
at +5 it also counts as adamantine.

These all stack. So at +5 you count as a cold iron, silver, good, evil, lawful, chaotic, adamantine weapon.

[Aelryinth]

Yes. It bypasses, Good, and it bypasses silver. satisfying the conditions for both lets it do so even if combined.

My rejoinder to you on bypassing: How many mages are affected by DR? Why does the fighter need to spend money on his golf bag of weapons, and the wizard just get to work normally, or use a different spell?

It is EXTREMELY annoying to have to pay for multiple weapons JUST to deal with DR, instead of one good weapon.

ALSO...the other big reason for it is to give a reason to permanently Enhance Weapons. What is the difference between a Greater Magic Weapon +5, and a +5 weapon in 3E? 50,000 gp you can spend on something else. Or, you could make a +1/+9 weapon, and a Pearl of Power (3rd), and just have the party cleric max it up to +5.
Or, more likely, the cleric would just do that to his own weapon.

By letting PERMANENT enhancements bypass DR, and not the spell, you tilt the power back to magical weapons being better then magical spells.

So, no golf bag was only one of the reasons. And really, just think of all the combos. Good and silver. Lawful and cold iron. Chaotic and adamantine. Piercing and gold. Good and cold iron. GLASS. Wood and piercing. I mean...come on! You can't make a big enough golf bag for all the DR they can throw at you.

==Aelryinth

[ckdragons]

Aelryinth wrote:

So, no golf bag was only one of the reasons. And really, just think of all the combos. Good and silver. Lawful and cold iron. Chaotic and adamantine. Piercing and gold. Good and cold iron. GLASS. Wood and piercing. I mean...come on! You can't make a big enough golf bag for all the DR they can throw at you.

==Aelryinth

No golf bag big enough? Sheath of Holding to hold all your weapons, duh! ;)

Seriously, thanks for clarifying the answer and thoughtful reply. It helps put the weapon bonus vs DR issue it into perspective. :)

[KainPen]

This is an older feature from AD&D you did no damage with out +x weapon and 3.0 where the weapon had to be +x and mat and alignment,to go thru DR. This created and super pricey ways to over come DR. Which is unbalance compared to caster be able to just ignore it any way. The +X was removed in 3.5 and changed to just magic. Where the items need to be mat and alignment and magic, This created the golf bag effect which was horrible, everyone was running around with like 20 +1 Alignment weapons, to over come DR. While this was cheaper then 3.0 it was This made creatures like dragons DR\magic a joke, still is and any weapon over +1 a joke or waste of money.+1 to hit and damage was not worth it when you can get the different levels of fire weapon for each of those + stacking on tons of extra d6 and d10 on critical ect.

So pathfinder took a balance between all of them and made all dr but Dr/- a joke. you can either go with the cheap +1 golf bag weapon or the +5 weapon you been building up the whole time. or the really really super cheep by casting 1 or 2 communal spells. depending on the needs.

pathfinder even turned it's own DR/EPIC into a joke with it revision in mythic adventures and beyond. now all you need is a +1 weapon with +5 worth extra's abilities or a +5 weapon with a +1 ability instead of any actual artifact that has +6 enhancement bonus or a weapon with bane property made to kill said creature. So you can see DR is meant to be cheep.

Aelryinth: ninja me with excellent response.

[Protoman]

Chess Pwn wrote:

yes. At +3 the weapons counts for cold iron and silver.

At +4 it also counts as alignment.
at +5 it also counts as adamantine.

These all stack. So at +5 you count as a cold iron, silver, good, evil, lawful, chaotic, adamantine weapon.

+4 is adamantine, +5 is alignment

[Chess Pwn]

Protoman wrote:

Chess Pwn wrote:

yes. At +3 the weapons counts for cold iron and silver.

At +4 it also counts as alignment.
at +5 it also counts as adamantine.

These all stack. So at +5 you count as a cold iron, silver, good, evil, lawful, chaotic, adamantine weapon.

+4 is adamantine, +5 is alignment

good catch! remembered them backwards :)

[412294]

Am I correct in thinking that enchantments other than the +x such as flaming only help bypass DR in the case of DR/EPIC, so a +1 weapon with +5 worth of stuff beats DR/EPIC but not DR/Adamantine?

[Imbicatus]

No. DR/Epic is only bypassed by an actual +6 enhancement bonus, and doesn't exist in PF rules, only 3.5.

[Jeraa]

Imbicatus wrote:

No. DR/Epic is only bypassed by an actual +6 enhancement bonus, and doesn't exist in PF rules, only 3.5.

Incorrect. Also, DR/Epic does appear in Pathfinder (even pre-Mythic Adventures). It is included in the very first Bestiary (solar angel).

Quote:

DR/Epic: A type of damage reduction, DR/epic can be overcome only by a weapon with an enhancement bonus of +6 or greater. Weapons with special abilities also count as epic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction if the total bonus value of all of their abilities (including the enhancement bonus) is +6 or greater.

Quote:

Am I correct in thinking that enchantments other than the +x such as flaming only help bypass DR in the case of DR/EPIC, so a +1 weapon with +5 worth of stuff beats DR/EPIC but not DR/Adamantine?

Correct.

[Chess Pwn]

Imbicatus wrote:

No. DR/Epic is only bypassed by an actual +6 enhancement bonus, and doesn't exist in PF rules, only 3.5.

DR/Epic

A type of damage reduction, DR/epic can be overcome only by a weapon with an enhancement bonus of +6 or greater. Weapons with special abilities also count as epic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction if the total bonus value of all of their abilities (including the enhancement bonus) is +6 or greater.

from Mythic Adventures

[Imbicatus]

Crap, misremebered, I was thinking it was DR/Mythic. Still, Mythic rules are generally a steaming pile of otyugh food and I generally ignore them. Sorry for the misinformation.

[Aelryinth]

The Mythic Rules REVISED DR/EPic, which is what Kain Pen was referring to.

So, you can have either +6 Enhancement bonus, OR +6 of total Enhancement equivalents to bypass DR/Epic...in other words, a sufficiently valuable magic weapon.

The reason for the revision is because DR/Epic was made for Epic rules, where you could actually GET a +6 weapon. THe only way to do that in Pathfinder is a +4 Bane weapon against the right enemy...which opens up another huge can of worms for golf bags of weapons.

The only reason Dr/Epic is in the core rules is because the 3.5 Solar was redone with DR Epic, and they ported it over.

==Aelryinth

[CBDunkerson]

Aelryinth wrote:

The only reason Dr/Epic is in the core rules is because the 3.5 Solar was redone with DR Epic, and they ported it over.

Not just the Solar. The Tarrasque and Fafnheir also had DR/Epic prior to introduction of the Mythic rules.

[Aelryinth]

core rules ;) Faf wasn't in core. They've popped in a couple things since. And they updated the big T in Inner Sea gods..kept the same Epic tho!

==Aelryinth