I have a character who wants to use Magic Jar and/or Parasitic Soul on a Grim Reaper but I have some questions.
As per the Magic Jar spell description, one can steal the body of an Undead creature, as long as they are sentient, which the Grim Reaper is. The confusion of this ability comes from the phrases "The body retains its Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, hit points, natural abilities, and automatic abilities" and "You can't choose to activate the body's extraordinary or supernatural abilities."
1. What are the Grim Reaper's Automatic and Natural Abilities?
2. According to RAW, one cannot choose to activate the Ex and Su abilities of the Grim Reaper. But what if they don't seem to need an activation? Are they, therefore, Automatic and/or Natural abilities? Was the intent of this clause that no one who uses Magic Jar or Parasitic Soul can benefit from *any* of the Ex or Su abilities of any creature they cast it on?
3. Because The Grim Reaper does not have a Constitution Score, would the creature that cast Magic Jar inherit its CHA score, or would they simply use their own in place of the CON score? I'm inclined to think the latter.
Bonus (not a Magic Jar question): The Grim Reaper does not have the incorporeal subtype, and it definitely has a strength score, but in its description, it says the following: SRD wrote: While grim reapers are the most feared of their kind, they are not alone. The towering, ghost-like grim reapers are served by minor reapers, corporeal servitors that enact their master’s dreadful will and meet out death’s unrelenting touch. A grim reaper is 15 feet tall and, as an incorporeal creature, has no physical weight except for its equipment. These are directly contradictory to each other. So is it Incorporeal or not?
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I have a lot of experience with this spell, and have myself created several clarification threads about it. That being said, these are still "off-the-cuff" answers.
"Cagey Bee wrote: 1. What are the Grim Reaper's Automatic and Natural Abilities? Anything not listed as Extraordinary, Supernatural, or Spell-like is generally considered an automatic or natural ability. Examples include things like natural armor, multiple limbs, natural attacks, etc.
"Cagey Bee wrote: 2. According to RAW, one cannot choose to activate the Ex and Su abilities of the Grim Reaper. But what if they don't seem to need an activation? Are they, therefore, Automatic and/or Natural abilities? Was the intent of this clause that no one who uses Magic Jar or Parasitic Soul can benefit from *any* of the Ex or Su abilities of any creature they cast it on? If it takes an action to use (even a free action) then it is generally considered an "activation." Examples include breath weapons, whirlwind, change shape, etc.
Ongoing abilities, or those that don't require actions, such as a troll's regeneration, continue to function just fine.
"Cagey Bee wrote: 3. Because The Grim Reaper does not have a Constitution Score, would the creature that cast Magic Jar inherit its CHA score, or would they simply use their own in place of the CON score? I'm inclined to think the latter.
The character would have a Constitution score of "-" while possessing the Grim Reaper. He would use his own Charisma score to determine changes to his host's hit points and other stats, not the Grim Reaper's.
"Cagey Bee wrote: So is [the Grim Reaper] Incorporeal or not? I have no idea which way it's supposed to go. Maybe the "Possible Bestiary 5 Errata" thread will have the answer?
I hope that helps!
Use the new Possession Spell from Occult Adventures. It's literally meant to replace magic jar.
It doesn't help settle what automatic abilities are, but it does clarify question #3 in that you just use the HP of the host body. It doesn't matter what your charisma is, it's not used to determine the body's HP. And it doesn't matter that it doesn't have a con, that body is immune to things that require fort saves unless it affects objects, and is then treated as having a 10 con (no bonus or penalty).
Grim Reaper wrote: Grim Reaper CR 22
XP 614,400
NE Medium undead (extraplanar)
Looks like someone has been doing some creative editing. I'm not aware of any medium creatures that are 15' tall.
Two things, when fluff and rules contradict use the rules, and there is no mention of incorporeal in the stat block.
Second if possible check the original source. There is no hint of incorporeality in my B5 where they are described as 6 and a half feet tall and 40lbs.
1 and 2) does it require an action to use? even a free action? if not then it is automatic. The idea is that you cannot actively use the bodies [ex] and [su] abilities.
3) Your take your Cha with you, so it should rely on your Cha. The undeads Cha is in the receptacle with the rest of it's soul. Not spelled out in the rules, so you can expect variation.
1. Natural abilities are any that the creature was "born" or created with. Senses, Natural Armor, DR, the undead Traits, speed, Spell Resistance, any Racial feats (though I don't see any) would all be natural abilities. Every ability listed under "Special Abilities" except for Status Sight would be automatic because they don't have any sort of activation.
Also, I'm not sure everyone would let you get away with this, but I also consider SLA's labeled as 'constant' to be automatic abilities too because they have always been and always will be on the body. That doesn't mean that they can't be dispelled, though. And you would never get them back.
2. Answered in question 1.
3. You're right. The creature casting it would not inherit the Grim Reaper's CHA but would instead use its own CHA score.
Bonus: it seems the Devs copied and pasted an earlier version of the Grim reaper stats before it was in Bestiary 5, and it was a different creature. Same basic stats but a little different. Apparently it was an incorporeal creature before but now it's not. It's not listed as having the incorporeal subtype and it has a STR score like you said.
Cagey Bee wrote: 1. What are the Grim Reaper's Automatic and Natural Abilities? Let's see...
darkvision 60 ft
misfortune aura
unnatural aura
+10 natural armor
channel resistance +4
death's grace
DR 10/-
undead traits
SR 33
speed 60 ft
fly 90 ft
death strike
energy drain
final death
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
