if an archetype does not say when you get an ability when do you get it?
In particular I am talking about the gravewalker witch ability: Possess Undead
A gravewalker may take direct control of one of her undead minions within her aura of desecration, as if using magic jar; the witch’s poppet acts as the soul receptacle for this ability. The minion gets no saving throw against this ability.
This replaces the witch’s hex gained at 8th level.
Um... 8th level.
Um... 8th level.
The reason I thought It might be first is because it replaces the 4th level hex with a first level ability
At 1st level, a gravewalker can take control of an undead creature within her aura of desecration by forcing her will upon it (Will negates, using her hex DC.) If it fails the save, the creature falls under her control as if she had used command undead (once control is established, the undead remain controlled even if outside the witch’s aura). Intelligent undead receive a new saving throw each day to resist her command. The witch can control up to 1 HD of undead creatures per caster level. If an undead creature is under the control of another creature, the witch must make an opposed Charisma check whenever her orders conflict with that creature’s.
This replaces the witch’s hex gained at 4th level.
When they say you get an ability that is replaced at level ____ then you get it at that level.
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Hmm. Well. Command Undead is available to any negative energy channeled at 1st level, and Magic Jar is available at 9th level, so 1st as stated and 8th as implied seems appropriate.
The general rule is the ability comes online at the level of the feature it is replacing. Unless otherwise specified (like Bonecaller).
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So, some general 'patterns' which have been suggested;
Abilities are always(?) listed in order by level
Within a given level, abilities are usually listed alphabetically (exception: 'foundational' abilities like skills, armor/weapons, spells, et cetera are listed prior to their alphabetical order)
Abilities without a listed level are usually available at 1st level
Abilities are usually gained at the same level as the ability they replace
Does anyone have examples of other abilities which do not list a level that could/must be higher level than 1st? I skimmed through several books, but didn't find any. Examples of each of the other items above were plentiful.
Unfortunately, in this case these patterns don't give a clear answer because 'Possess Undead' could come after 'Bonethrall' either because it is higher level OR because it is alphabetically later.
Every archetype I have seen has said Ability X replaces Ability Y that you would have gained at level Z or something similar. Sometimes an archetype will trade out several abilities or an ability that will come later, but that is also stated.
Bonethrall is actually an example of this.
Bonethrall (Su): At first level, a gravewalker can take control of an undead creature within her aura of desecration by forcing her will upon it .......This replaces the witch's hex gained at 4th level.
Another one:
At 3rd level, a cold iron warden gains Alignment Channel as a bonus feat and must choose either chaotic or evil outsiders........This ability replaces solo tactics and the teamwork feats gained at 6th and 15th level.
Technically it is possible they forgot to put "At 1st level", but they could have also forgot to put "at 8th level". I think it is worth an FAQ.
Heh. Check out the paladin archetype Divine Guardian's Divine Troth and try to figure out whether you get it at 1st or 4th. ;)
...even more confusing if it combines with any archetypes that remove spell casting.
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Technically it is possible they forgot to put "At 1st level", but they could have also forgot to put "at 8th level". I think it is worth an FAQ.
They actually leave out "At 1st level" a lot... to the point that I don't think it is 'an error' so much as a 'base assumption'. That is, 'if level is not specified then it applies to all levels'.
That said, Possess Undead would be an unusually powerful 1st level ability... so it is certainly possible that they missed "at 8th level"... or in this one case they may have assumed that the replaced ability being 8th level was sufficient to cover that.
Heh. Check out the paladin archetype Divine Guardian's Divine Troth and try to figure out whether you get it at 1st or 4th. ;)
...even more confusing if it combines with any archetypes that remove spell casting.
Actually... Divine Guardian itself removes spell casting;
"She does not gain access to divine spellcasting and cannot use spell-completion magic items."
So... yeah, Divine Troth being set at the same time each day as the spells the Paladin does not get is a bit odd.
That said, it being listed before a power that modifies a 2nd level ability and then a power specifically listed as 3rd level suggests to me that it is 2nd level or lower... and I'd assume 1st because there are so many first level powers that don't list the level.
I'd guess that the line about timing coinciding with preparing spells is left over from a version of the archetype that retained spellcasting.
Unfortunately it all seems to boil down to inconsistency in the writing, especially in older books.
I remember one of the devs saying they don't hold freelancers to a rigid code of how to write so they can express themselves better.<--paraphrasing
I do wish however that after the freelancer turned in the final copy the dev teams reworded it for consistency.
edit: I have no idea if this archetype was written by a freelancer or someone on the PDT.