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Hi Everyone! I'm trying to build a teamwork-focused character for PFS, and below is the structure. Also, this character profile has a summary of the relevant feats. We'll be starting at L1, but below is an L9 Surprise Round example. Does this seem OK, and what should I do differently?
"I have...a...plan"
Class Features
The (Paladin) Holy Tactician ability is an aura, which takes a standard action to establish. Once established, it is suppressed when the Holy Tactician is flat-footed or unconscious, but (like an aura) functions when the Holy Tactician is conscious and able to act.
The (Swashbuckler) Guiding Blade utilizes Panache, which takes a standard action to activate, and grants a Teamwork Feat within 30 feet.
The (Brawler) Exemplar level 3 ability "Inspiring Prowess" is like bardic performance through martial display.
Feats
Battle Song of the People's Revolt is a bardic performance masterpiece: "When you learn this masterpiece, choose a teamwork feat for which you meet the prerequisites. Once the feat is chosen, it can’t be changed. This performance grants the chosen feat to all allies within 30 feet who can see and hear you. Your allies don’t need to meet the prerequisites of this feat. Abilities that extend the duration of a bardic performance, such as Lingering Performance, affect this masterpiece" This feat will be Seize the Moment, taken at L9 with Improved Critical as the Brawler Bonus Feat.
Flagbearer: Grants +1 morale attack/damage/saves vs. fear, but more importantly opens up "banners" on a polearm (such as the Fauchard)
Equipment
Sandals of Quick Reactions (4,000 gp): Wearer can take standard and move actions in the surprise round.
Banner of the Ancient Kings (18,000 gp): +4 initiative, +2 vs. mind-affecting and re-roll, doubles flagbearer bonus, +4 to bardic performance level
In Combination
At the start of a surprise round General Dissa Ray rolls initiative at a +4 from the Banner. On his turn:
No Action Holy Tactician activates, granting 1 teamwork feat within 30' (probably Paired Opportunists)
Standard Action Guiding Blade activates, granting 1 teamwork feat within 30' (probably Outflank)
No Action Sandals of Quick Reactions grant a Move Action
Move Action Due to +4 bardic level performance from "Banner", and "Inspiring Prowess", at L9 General Dissa Ray uses Bardic Performance at 7th level, and is able to perform as a Move Action. With "Battle Song of the People's Revolt" he can grant a 3rd teamwork feat. (probably Seize the Moment)
Result
At L9 in the surprise round Dissa will grant:
1) Outflank (+4 to attacks while flanking, crits provoke AoO)
2) Paired Opportunists (+4 to AoOs, AoOs allow party to make AoO)
3) Seize the Moment (Any Crit provokes an AoO)
4) +2 Morale Bonus to Attack/Damage/Saves vs. Fear
5) +2 Competence Bonus to Attack/Damage
Instant Teamwork!
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The sandals don't do what you quoted them to do. What they do is if you get to act during a surprise round, then you may take both a move and a standard. They don't automatically allow you to act in a surprise round. Also, just because you might have the ability to act in a surprise round (which as just noted isn't what the sandals grant), doesn't mean every combat now has a surprise round--even with the sandals, there will be some combats without surprise rounds. So you have to be aware of that also.
I think Broken Wing Gambit will work better than Outflank for you. Outflank requires specific position (flanking the enemy, so not adjacent to you) and Paired Opportunists requires adjacency. So you'll be giving two teamwork feats that basically you'll never be able to use both at once.
BWG works really with Paired Opportunists--if you're adjacent to your ally (and you'll want to be because of PO), if you hit the enemy, then you activate BWG and thus because of PO you both get an AoO. Throw in Seize the Moment and you already provoke on a crit for your ally and thus for you because of PO.
Also, I'd suggest three levels of Skald instead of three levels of Brawler. You'll lose out on 1 BaB which means you'll get improved crit one level later, but you'll gain spells based off of charisma (I'm assuming you'll have charisma because of swashbuckler and paladin), and you'll get Versatile Performance which is free skill points (perform oratory gives you a cha-based dayjob check that also counts for your diplomacy and sense motive checks) which will be awesome outside of combat.
Personally, I'd also take the Cavalier (Constable) instead of swashbuckler because it basically has unlimited uses.
OK, so I would love to see a level by level progression including feats and special abilities to make this viable. Because this interests me greatly.
There's also a new Skald Archetype that lets you give out Feats like candy. Seriously it's very broken.
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There's also a new Skald Archetype that lets you give out Feats like candy. Seriously it's very broken.
It's less broken than cherry picking these other classes. The skald archetype only lets your teammates use teamwork feats that they qualify for which severely limits how awesome it would have been.
For reference, HERE is a character I planned out with pretty much the same concept.
There's also a new Skald Archetype that lets you give out Feats like candy. Seriously it's very broken.It's less broken than cherry picking these other classes. The skald archetype only lets your teammates use teamwork feats that they qualify for which severely limits how awesome it would have been.
For reference, HERE is a character I planned out with pretty much the same concept.
Well good. Honestly, the less broken, the better. I took a cursory glance at it and thought of the potential "everyone-is-suddenly-an-archer" shenanigans but never actually put it into practice or made a character with it.
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Well good. Honestly, the less broken, the better. I took a cursory glance at it and thought of the potential "everyone-is-suddenly-an-archer" shenanigans but never actually put it into practice or made a character with it.There's also a new Skald Archetype that lets you give out Feats like candy. Seriously it's very broken.It's less broken than cherry picking these other classes. The skald archetype only lets your teammates use teamwork feats that they qualify for which severely limits how awesome it would have been.
For reference, HERE is a character I planned out with pretty much the same concept.
I mean, it's still really good. It lets you share more at once than any of the other options (at once as in a single action).
It's a trade off--more at once with just the skald but with limitations, or spend more actions to give whatever teamwork feats you want.
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OK. Here is the whole plan thus far:
@claudekennilol Thanks for the feedback! I have 4 points:
1) Good point on the Sandals, I was implying that I could act, but I did not openly state it.
2) I plan to take "Gang Up" vs. Broken wing gambit, and our group has a hunter who plans to take pack flanking. The real benefit of Outflank is provoking an AoO on a crit. With gang up and a pole arm adjacent to a pack flanking mounted hunter, all 3 are flanking...
3) I really like your skald idea. I was thinking exemplar more for the martial flexibility (improved trip, improved steal, or improved grapple depending on the foe) I will look into it!
4) Cavalier Constable is also a great idea. I think the swashbuckler will turn into "unlimited uses" because it replaces panache whenever an ally kills a foe. Unless my character kills all the combatants every battle 5 times a day, I should have enough panache to last all our battles.
@Markov Spiked Chain We are building a teamwork-themed PFS group, with the intent of taking on the toughest scenarios in hard mode. The intent is to optimize teamwork. Hopefully I don't have to remind our group about what's available.
@TPK brief list as requested:
Stats: Human paladin (probably of Torag, but I really like Tsukiyo)
Str 18 (racial bonus)
Dex 13 (first bump at 4th level)
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 7
Cha 16
L1 Paladin (Holy Tactician): Aura of good, weals champion
F1 Power Attack
Human1 Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Fauchard
L2 Paladin: Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
L3 Paladin: Battlefield Presence, Tactical Acumen (Paired Opportunists)
F3 Combat Reflexes
L4 Swashbuckler (Guiding Blade): Daring Teamwork (Outflank)
L5 Brawler (Exemplar): Martial Flexibility, Call to Arms
F5 Combat Expertise
L6 Brawler: Bonus Combat Feat (Gang Up)
L7 Brawler: Inspiring Prowess
F7 Flagbearer
L8 Brawler
L9 Brawler: Field Instruction, Bonus Combat Feat (Improved Critical)
F9 Battle Song of the People's Revolt (Seize the Moment)
Enjoy!
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1) Good point on the Sandals, I was implying that I could act, but I did not openly state it.
How do you plan to do this consistently to warrant the sandals over a boots of speed?
2) I plan to take "Gang Up" vs. Broken wing gambit, and our group has a hunter who plans to take pack flanking. The real benefit of Outflank is provoking an AoO on a crit. With gang up and a pole arm adjacent to a pack flanking mounted hunter, all 3 are flanking...
That'll work, but my main point is that you're already getting "crit provokes AoO" from Seize the Moment, so taking Outflank just for that doesn't work. Maybe start with Outflank and retrain it to Seize the Moment as soon as you have Improved Critical. The provocations from Seize the Moment and Outflank won't stack as it's the same thing provoking (a single crit). Then you can still take BWG to have something else cause a provocation that does work together. You also won't have be flanking. Bonus tip for your hunter friend. Have him spend 4k on a Menacing Amulet of Mighty Fists for his companion for an almost always on total of +6 to hit when flanking.
3) I really like your skald idea. I was thinking exemplar more for the martial flexibility (improved trip, improved steal, or improved grapple depending on the foe) I will look into it!
I figured that's why you'd taken brawler, but in my experience, unless you focus on brawler long enough to reduce the action cost (6th level to get a single feat as a swift action), it's really costly to make effective use of in combat. But I really like the skald idea because he already has access masterpieces, in PFS he gets extra performance as a first level bonus feat instead of scribe scroll, and because of his skills from versatile performance (3 skills maxed at the cost of one skill).
4) Cavalier Constable is also a great idea. I think the swashbuckler will turn into "unlimited uses" because it replaces panache whenever an ally kills a foe. Unless my character kills all the combatants every battle 5 times a day, I should have enough panache to last all our battles.
Ah, I didn't realize that was a feature of the swashbuckler archetype--so at that point I guess it depends on whether you want to be str-based or dex-based. I haven't read most of what the book provides yet.
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@Claudekennilol et al,
FYSA: We actually went through with the "Teamwork Experiment" PbP for PFS. The group currently consists of -
Dissa (my character) the build order listed above
A Battle Scion
2x Hunters (both with pole-arms and dinosaurs)
We had a cleric that is on time-out for the moment.
The rogue in the party has taken over GM duties as our GM is also on time-out.
Hopefully both will be back in action soon, which would net 1 full divine caster, 2x partial divine casters, 1x partial arcane caster, and 6 (or 8 with dinosaurs) front-line combatants with AoO synergy out the wazoo.
We're all 2nd level, but once we hit 3rd our power-level will start to grow exponentially as 4 characters can add teamwork to the group in addition to taking teamwork feats as individuals.
We're not that great at skill stuff, and we're going to be doomed if we're forced into a ranged combat before someone gets a potion of fly.
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Hmm looks like a can update my best teamwork group a bit. Will follow this thread.
Best-teamwork-group