Two weapon fighting and "toothy"


Rules Questions


In a current campaign there is a half Orc with the toothy trait. The Half Orc also has the two weapon fighting feat. The GM ruled that you can either attack with your offhand weapon or bite but not both. Essentially you get two attacks a round not three.

Is this the correct way to apply the rules?

Liberty's Edge

No... You should get all your normal weapon attacks, but your natural attacks at a -5 bonus. So you can TWF at -2/-2 and bite at -5. Or use a great sword at normal bonus and bite at -5. If it's a monk or brawler it works a little different though.


Basblood is correct. From the Combat section of the PRD.

CRB wrote:

Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.

Some natural attacks are denoted as secondary natural attacks, such as tails and wings. Attacks with secondary natural attacks are made using your base attack bonus minus 5. These attacks deal an amount of damage depending on their type, but you only add half your Strength modifier on damage rolls.

You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.


Badblood wrote:
...So you can TWF at -2/-2 and bite at -5. ...

Shouldn't the bite be at -7?


Franz Lunzer wrote:
Badblood wrote:
...So you can TWF at -2/-2 and bite at -5. ...
Shouldn't the bite be at -7?

No. Because the TWF penalties don't apply to bite. They are separate

Edit:TWF applies to unarmed and manufactured weapons.


legoguy4492 wrote:
Franz Lunzer wrote:
Badblood wrote:
...So you can TWF at -2/-2 and bite at -5. ...
Shouldn't the bite be at -7?

No. Because the TWF penalties don't apply to bite. They are separate

Edit:TWF applies to unarmed and manufactured weapons.

Also the two penalties specifically apply to attacks made with your Primary Hand and your Off Hand. The bite is neither.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Also remember, you only get 1.5 str mod bonus for the bite when you use it as a single attack. It is only 1.0 when combined with other attacks, such as TWF with the Bite.


Actually with TWF its only .5 Str as quoted above.


Talonhawke wrote:
Actually with TWF its only .5 Str as quoted above.

Actually actually it's 0.5 when combined with manufactured weapon attacks or unamred strikes TWF doesn't enter into that.


You have to be using either unarmed strikes or a manufactured weapon to TWF. So yes if your using TWF then inherently you are using either manufactured weapons or unarmed strikes.


I believe he was referring to how you can also use the bite with a two-handed weapon. The bite would still be at .5 str.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ah, thank you. .5 str.

I only mention it because the Bite does get 1.5 when used by itself with no other attacks.

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