Hello once again everyone.
So, I have a question. If you could give a doppleganger 2 lv. worth of classes with the aim of having them infiltrate various positions of power under your control non-lethally, which classes would it be and why?
Right now, I'm thinking either Witch for the slumber hex (though with their 13 INT the DC will be very weak) or maybe increase their capabilities with Investigator using inspiration.
Also, is there a 5 CR creature that does what the doppleganger does, only better? I.e. disguising / bluffing and infiltrating, acting as other people?
Both Rogue and Investigator will help the skills out.
Rogue archetypes to consider would be spy or charlatan. For investigator, perhaps infiltrator?
As far as disguise/bluff style things, I'm not sure if they're 'better', and they're mostly not the right CR, but:
Faceless Stalker CR4
Dandasuka (Rakshasa) CR5
Succubus CR7
Pairaka Div CR7
Intellect Devourer CR8
Marai (Rakshasa) CR8
Vampire CR9
Rakshasa CR10
Templates:
Pod Spawned Creature CR0/CR-1/CR-2(spawn of CR14 body thief)
Some dragons have very good disguise abilities too.
"Once you have determined the creature's role, it's time to add class levels. The first step of this process is to modify the creature's ability scores. Creatures with class levels receive +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 adjustments to their ability scores, assigned in a manner that enhances their class abilities. Creatures with NPC class levels do not receive adjustments to their ability scores" - from the Bestiary, Advancing Monsters.
So that's 17 Int instead.
"Once you have determined the creature's role, it's time to add class levels. The first step of this process is to modify the creature's ability scores. Creatures with class levels receive +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 adjustments to their ability scores, assigned in a manner that enhances their class abilities. Creatures with NPC class levels do not receive adjustments to their ability scores" - from the Bestiary, Advancing Monsters.
So that's 17 Int instead.
I missed that. Very interesting. Thank you.
Both Rogue and Investigator will help the skills out.
Rogue archetypes to consider would be spy or charlatan. For investigator, perhaps infiltrator?
As far as disguise/bluff style things, I'm not sure if they're 'better', and they're mostly not the right CR, but:
Faceless Stalker CR4
Dandasuka (Rakshasa) CR5
Succubus CR7
Pairaka Div CR7
Intellect Devourer CR8
Marai (Rakshasa) CR8
Vampire CR9
Rakshasa CR10Templates:
Pod Spawned Creature CR0/CR-1/CR-2(spawn of CR14 body thief)Some dragons have very good disguise abilities too.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll definitely check some of these out. Seems doppleganger is what I may want for this particular level and needs though. Templates could be interesting though. Thanks!
Bard.
A definite possibility. I'll look into their spell lists and archetypes and see if anything clicks with what I'm looking for. Thanks!
Lots of useful stuff everyone. Appreciate it.
A doppelganger with 17 intelligence and 2 levels of investigator is going to be a normal person that you see everyday.
That's mostly because it's not going to be found. Not by the NPC's, not by the PC's, and it's checks might be so good that it starts to think it actually is who it is.
Jokes aside, it's going to be a bit difficult to find.
A doppelganger with 17 intelligence and 2 levels of investigator is going to be a normal person that you see everyday.
That's mostly because it's not going to be found. Not by the NPC's, not by the PC's, and it's checks might be so good that it starts to think it actually is who it is.
Jokes aside, it's going to be a bit difficult to find.
This is probably very true haha. That said, had Investigator Talent been available at lv. 2 instead of lv. 3, I could have gotten Underworld Inspiration which would have been awesome. But alas, I need to keep this one to two levels.
Thanks for the info.
Mesmerist. Hypnotic Stare is forgotten as soon as it's done, and psychic casting goes well with Cunning Caster. Silent Image to fake spells and other class features, Memory Lapse to cover mistakes, and one other spell to fit the character. Tons of class skills, too.
Mesmerist. Hypnotic Stare is forgotten as soon as it's done, and psychic casting goes well with Cunning Caster. Silent Image to fake spells and other class features, Memory Lapse to cover mistakes, and one other spell to fit the character. Tons of class skills, too.
Definitely an interesting angle. Could do the stare into sleep, maybe I'll give them a trait that improves caster level so they're asleep longer. Wake up shackled and gag look up at...themselves.
Looking over it though, Infiltrator Investigator could be good. Yeah I don't get investigator talents for the doppleganger, but still 4 times a day inspiration can work fine. Especially since disguise is a one time check, so it's good for inspiration.
Could use the Psychic Detective instead of normal Investigator. Psychic magic makes more sense to me for a doppelganger than using alchemy.
Could use the Psychic Detective instead of normal Investigator. Psychic magic makes more sense to me for a doppelganger than using alchemy.
Psychic Detective could definitely work. However, I'm thinking the disguise bonuses given by the infiltrator might be best for maximizing its disguise potential. Especially the addition of voice mimicry.
That said, I'm curious after looking through some things. Which would be better for infiltration? The doppleganger with 2 investigator levels? or an Umbral Shepherd? They can magic jar from person to person, and thus could instantly use their voice and body, and wouldn't require a body to be left behind hidden somewhere. Sort of wish they didn't die when the host died though, but oh well.
Maybe just add what you want? You're the GM, just customize it. Add some hit points, AC, skills, spells, and bump up the DCs a bit.
It's not like your players are going to audit your monster's character sheets.