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This came up in a game I ran the other day. If a creature is under the effects of a Glitterdust spell, but there is no line of sight to the creature (in this case, 20' worth of stinking cloud) do they still suffer the -40 penalty to Stealth when they try to sneak around? Since Pathfinder integrated Hide and Move Silently into one skill, it is my opinion that it is up to the GM to decide whether purely visual or auditory bonuses or penalties apply, but my player claimed that the way Glitterdust is worded, the -40 to Stealth doesn't care whether the subject is hiding behind a bush or tip-toeing on the other side of a wall. Put another way, does Glitterdust make it easier for a blinded character to pinpoint an enemy?
I have looked through the Core book, and other than the universal rule that the GM is there to arbitrate unusual situations, I couldn't find much more to support my position. Of course, I think that is all the support I need, but I run a lot of PFS so it would be handy to have a more specific citation.
By the RAW, you take a -40 to stealth checks no matter how you're stealthing.
This is one of the drawbacks to the merger of Hide and Move Silently. Really, this is GM Fiat territory. My group pays attention to whether a bonus or penalty is visual or auditory in nature. We would treat Glitterdust as a visual stealth penalty.
- Gauss
The glitterdust makes tinkly noises. Loud tinkly magical noises. :p
There is no citation that will help here. You either make a ruling as GM and argue the point from a common sense perspective or stick to the RAW and assume magic makes it happen somehow...perhaps the glitter is noisy and smelly...magically...or something...
When you can't see two creatures that are hiding around the corner, the invisible one is +40 Stealth more stealthy for some reason. So this poor logic balances it out! Apparently being invisible makes you super quiet, and being glitterdusted goes tinkle-tinkle.
Yeah, the folding into one skill of Hide and Move Silently (and Spot and Listen) causes a lot of problems with logic, common sense and flavor.
I've never liked it, particularly since the characters who benefited the most from this combining of skills already had a ton of skill points, while the ones with fewer skills/level had none of their skills combined.
Most other games I know of don't have different skills for hiding and move silently and they seem to work reasonably well. The same should be true for Pathfinder.
The issue here is that there are a number of spells that have effects that boost or cripple one aspect of stealth - being seen or being heard - and their descriptions have not been updated to include the caveat that the modifier should apply when circumstances are appropriate. This is a baseline common sense adjudication issue. If it seems that the glitterdust's brightness should give the PC away, given the circumstances, then apply the modifier. If not, don't apply it.
Don't be a slave to the rules as written when they don't make sense. They aren't mean to be comprehensive and ironclad in the first place.
Maybe Glitterdust sparkles are comprised of such a loud color, you can litteraly HEAR the color. or maybe it still impares their vision enough to make them stumble and they are more likely to make loud noises as they crash into things.
I just assumed it was like that one laundry detergent commercial where the kids are playing hide and seek and the kid hiding was easy to spot because his clothing reflected the light enough to create a nimbus coming out from behind the tree.
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Most other games I know of don't have different skills for hiding and move silently and they seem to work reasonably well. The same should be true for Pathfinder.
The issue here is that there are a number of spells that have effects that boost or cripple one aspect of stealth - being seen or being heard - and their descriptions have not been updated to include the caveat that the modifier should apply when circumstances are appropriate. This is a baseline common sense adjudication issue. If it seems that the glitterdust's brightness should give the PC away, given the circumstances, then apply the modifier. If not, don't apply it.
Don't be a slave to the rules as written when they don't make sense. They aren't mean to be comprehensive and ironclad in the first place.
I agree, but in PFS play you get players and GMs with varying degrees of reasonableness, and generally have a limited time to play, so long rules discussions aren't really an option.