Mage's Disjunction, Dispel and Bags of holding?

[Jifd]

Hello guys, i wonder what happens with Handy Haversack and Bag of Holding when it's magic have been calceled? Does it looses all that was in there? does it looses a ''path'' to it's dimension?

i've met a trap with Mage's Disjunction and i'm not quite sure what will hapenn with all the items, artifacts and etc. that my PC's posses?

would like to hear your opinion. thank you.

[Ring_of_Gyges]

I've always thought of the bags as linking to an extradimensional space somewhere else. I'd rule that the gear stays in the extradimensional location and the bag is just an empty normal bag until it is fixed.

[Jifd]

Ring_of_Gyges wrote:

I'd rule that the gear stays in the extradimensional location and the bag is just an empty normal bag until it is fixed.

Well i'm not sure, the mage disjunction actually CAN destroy an artifact... so it's not really fair. From the other side just taking all of PS's belongings that they DO keep in HHH or bag of holdings is't quite fair.

I need a golden middle i guess.

[Scavion]

I usually rule everything comes pouring out.

[Jifd]

Scavion wrote:

I usually rule everything comes pouring out.

well i see this items being more like a portal that leads to some dimencion, so its not quite for me. but thank you, it's an interesting way of making it.

[wraithstrike]

The bag contains an extradimensional space. I would say that if the bag(no longer magical) can no longer support the items in it, then the items fall out, and the bag ruptures.

There is no real rule, but that is how I would do it. That way there is still a penalty, but the players don't lose everything in the bag.

[Jifd]

wraithstrike wrote:

The bag contains an extradimensional space. I would say that if the bag(no longer magical) can no longer support the items in it, then the items fall out, and the bag ruptures.

So you suggesting destroying the bag, right? It seems fair.

[CBDunkerson]

Given that the contents just become inaccessible (rather than pouring out) when the magic of such containers 'ceases to function' while within another extradimensional space, I don't see why it would behave any differently if the magic ceased to function due to Mage's Disjunction.

Extradimensional spaces

[Quantum Steve]

Mage's Disjunction can either target an area "suppressing" (not destroying) items for the duration of the spell. In this case, items within a Bag of Holding would simply become inaccessible until the magic was restored.

MD can also "destroy" a single item. What happens to the items in a Bag if it is destroyed is up to you, but the entry for Bag of Holding lists several other ways it might be destroyed, and in all of them the contents are lost forever.

[Kayerloth]

Note that Disjunction will only destroy a magical item if it rolls a 1 on its Will save, otherwise it is merely suppressed for the duration (1 min/lvl) when used as an AoE. If you want messy the contents do not have to be expelled onto the current plane but might be expelled somewhat at random between the both the plane the owner is currently on and one (or more) of the coexistent planes (the Astral, Ethereal and Shadow typically).

That said I personally agree with CBDunkerson Disjunction would simply remove access when used as an AoE unless the item rolled a 1 ... then it would get 'messy' as described above with most of the stuff getting essentially lost forever. But given the potential power level of the characters involved when such spells are typically getting used I'd hesitate to automatically lose all the items if the characters had taken any precautions and could come up with some way to track down the location of an item (i.e Discern Location, Wish etc.)

[Jifd]

Quantum Steve wrote:

MD can also "destroy" a single item.

was replying to the spell. it says that it can destroy artifacts.

+ what kind a trap it is if all it does it's just delaying in-game time for a 20min max.

[wraithstrike]

Jifd wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

The bag contains an extradimensional space. I would say that if the bag(no longer magical) can no longer support the items in it, then the items fall out, and the bag ruptures.

So you suggesting destroying the bag, right? It seems fair.

Yes, if a nonmagical bag of the same size could not hold the items.

What the players can do is get a make whole or greater make whole spell to fix it. However that option might not be immediately availible.

[wraithstrike]

Making the items inaccessible is also an option, and depending on the situation can be more harsh than having to fix the bag later on, especially if it is an item they could need relatively soon.

[Kayerloth]

Jifd wrote:

Quantum Steve wrote:

MD can also "destroy" a single item.

was replying to the spell. it says that it can destroy artifacts.

+ what kind a trap it is if all it does it's just delaying in-game time for a 20min max.

Depends on, like with many traps, what else is going on. Do nearby foes know about the trap and respond to it being triggered taking on anyone caught in the area who has now been weakened by the trap/Disjunction. It also depends in this case what the party has stored within their various extradimensional spaces that have now been sealed up. That could range from inconsequential to life threatening. So no directly a Disjoining trap is not in itself damaging but the consequences of getting your buffs stripped/suppressed, then ambushed and then finding needed magic item(s) sealed up could be very bad.

[Jifd]

Kayerloth wrote:

Depends on, like with many traps, what else is going on. Do nearby foes know about the trap and respond to it being triggered taking on anyone caught in the area who has now been weakened by the trap/Disjunction. It also depends in this case what the party has stored within their various extradimensional spaces that have now been sealed up. That could range from inconsequential to life threatening. So no directly a Disjoining trap is not in itself damaging but the consequences of getting your buffs stripped/suppressed, then ambushed and then finding needed magic item(s) sealed up could be very bad.

The trap itself is a damaged and perverted rod of of Cancellation, that's why i want it to do something serious.