Blistering Feint Kineticist


Rules Questions


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Say you're an Ifrit Kineticist with the Fire elemental focus and the Kinetic Blade power. Does the Kinetic Blade count as a "weapon that deals fire damage" for Blistering Feint? I kinda want to see a build that pseudo-cleaves with acrobatics checks using Twinned Feint, Acrobatic, and Slayer's Feint. Then practically auto-hits against flatfooted touch AC.


i think you are only wielding a kinetic blast when you use the Kinetic Whip infusion though. otherwise, yeah, it should count i believe.


Torbyne wrote:
i think you are only wielding a kinetic blast when you use the Kinetic Whip infusion though. otherwise, yeah, it should count i believe.

Are you wielding it if you attack first, then attempt to feint?


My Self wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
i think you are only wielding a kinetic blast when you use the Kinetic Whip infusion though. otherwise, yeah, it should count i believe.
Are you wielding it if you attack first, then attempt to feint?

You know, re-reading it, i could see it working with kinetic blade, i was mis-remembering the wording for kinetic blade. it could totally work. Double plus good thinking :)


It does not work.

Quote:
The kineticist is never considered to be wielding or gripping the kinetic blast (regardless of effects from form infusions; see Infusion),


Ok.

What if you were using a Conductive sword? Could you still do that?

Silver Crusade

My Self wrote:
What if you were using a Conductive sword? Could you still do that?

I believe that was nixed as well if my memory is correct. Something about the fact that the spell-like ability (aka your blast) is marked as range. Even though Kinetic Blade lets you modify the blast into a melee weapon, the Conductive property doesn't channel any of the special rider effects. It only channels the base ability and you can't channel a ranged spell-like through a melee weapon.


Aziraya Zhwan wrote:
My Self wrote:
What if you were using a Conductive sword? Could you still do that?
I believe that was nixed as well if my memory is correct. Something about the fact that the spell-like ability (aka your blast) is marked as range. Even though Kinetic Blade lets you modify the blast into a melee weapon, the Conductive property doesn't channel any of the special rider effects. It only channels the base ability and you can't channel a ranged spell-like through a melee weapon.

How about a conductive bow? So you lead off by shooting a flaming arrow, then do your feinting stuff to help your allies?

Silver Crusade

Just by reading the rules for Feint it doesn't necessarily say you have to be in melee but there are some abilities that specifically says you gain the ability to Feint with a bow. This implies that you normally can't do it because otherwise there would be no reason for the ability to say that it gives it to you. The ability I quoted below is from the Fighter (Archer) archetype.

Trick Shot wrote:
At 3rd level, an archer can choose one of the following combat maneuvers or actions: disarm, feint, or sunder. He can perform this action with a bow against any target within 30 feet, with a –4 penalty to his CMB.


Aziraya Zhwan wrote:

Just by reading the rules for Feint it doesn't necessarily say you have to be in melee but there are some abilities that specifically says you gain the ability to Feint with a bow. This implies that you normally can't do it because otherwise there would be no reason for the ability to say that it gives it to you. The ability I quoted below is from the Fighter (Archer) archetype.

Trick Shot wrote:
At 3rd level, an archer can choose one of the following combat maneuvers or actions: disarm, feint, or sunder. He can perform this action with a bow against any target within 30 feet, with a –4 penalty to his CMB.

But assuming you have that, you can double-feint with your flaming kineticist bow thing?


The basic rules in Pathfinder don't seem to say that you can't feint at range. *mumble*unwritten rules*grumble* However, there was something in that new book about it I believe. Ranged Feint or something. I would ask someone about it or wait till it hits SRD.

Silver Crusade

My Self wrote:
But assuming you have that, you can double-feint with your flaming kineticist bow thing?

Only if you're within 5 feet of the enemy. You need Improved Feint in order to bring the Feint down to a move action in order to still be able to do any attacks that round (no big deal, you need it anyway for Blistering Feint) but then your move action is taken. Feinting already doesn't provoke which is nice so you can be right in front of the mook holding your bow and Blistering Feint him, switch grips to hold your bow in one hand, and use your free hand to use Kinetic Blade.

There are a LOT of downsides to this though. First of all, you need to use three levels of being a fighter in order to gain the Trick Shot ability. That's losing out on 1d6 to 2d6 of damage depending on your current level, not even considering your class features that you're delaying. Since you're using your move action to Feint instead of Gather Energy you need to rely on Infusion Specialization in order to reduce the burn used by Kinetic Blade. That isn't normally given to you until 5th level. Since you're multi-classing though you're always eating a point of burn to use Kinetic Blade until level 8 which is kind of late for your main schtick to come online.

At that point a lot of monsters have mostly left behind having really high touch-AC and instead have started to heavily rely on armor (both manufactured as well as natural) to protect themselves meaning your Kinetic Blade is already hitting very easily. If you believe this spreadsheet then the average touch-AC of monsters never really ever changes past 12 while regular AC and CMD keeps on traveling up. At level 8 (since that's basically what we're comparing at) average touch-AC is 12 and regular CMD is at 28. Even my Level 5 Kineticist is at a +7 to my attack rolls not counting whatever other party buffs are happening at the time. That means I would be hitting on a roll of a 5 or lower which is only going to keep getting easier as levels progress. Level 8 is also when you get to full-attack with the Kinetic Blade (which you can't using your bow-feint idea since you're using your move action). Which would you rather do? Get two attacks at full damage progression, one of which is basically guaranteed to hit and the other still hitting about 75% of the time, or would you rather basically do two attacks at less damage with only one of them guaranteeing a hit and one of them very likely to miss (one of the attacks coming through the feint attempt that is likely to miss with the second attack coming through at full BAB after the feint attempt)?

I'll admit that it's a clever idea as a whole, but in practice it is very, very bad compared to just going straight Kineticist and doing Kinetic Blade.


Ranged feint abilities are hilarious. They usually remove a non-existent restriction and fail to remove the restriction that makes them mostly useless.

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