I've seen this come up in a few scenarios where other players assured me their optimized skill character could use their modifier in the disguise skill to disguise other players' characters. I was a little iffy on this as a player, and iffier still when I ran the same scenario, but I didn't really want to argue the point because we didn't have the time for it.
I'm running a similar scenario soon, and would like a clearer answer on this. Nowhere in the description of the disguise skill does the CRB mention disguising other characters. Everything refers to the user of the skill as the disguised party. Is there some expansion or errata that makes disguising others kosher?
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I've seen this come up in a few scenarios where other players assured me their optimized skill character could use their modifier in the disguise skill to disguise other players' characters. I was a little iffy on this as a player, and iffier still when I ran the same scenario, but I didn't really want to argue the point because we didn't have the time for it.
I'm running a similar scenario soon, and would like a clearer answer on this. Nowhere in the description of the disguise skill does the CRB mention disguising other characters. Everything refers to the user of the skill as the disguised party. Is there some expansion or errata that makes disguising others kosher?
I am really not sure of your question, honestly.
Would you rather the person doing the disguise use Profession (Make-up Artist)?
My quick reading of the disguise skill would indicate that you can only use it on yourself. The skill says "You are skilled at changing your appearance."
I would assume the Disguise skill holder could Assist the other PCs in their Disguise check. But not use the skill 'on' them.
Barring a special ability or feat saying otherwise, you cannot disguise another creature.
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While the Disguise skill does not say directly that you can create a disguise for someone else... I would be hard pressed to give a reason why it shouldn't work as a GM. It shouldn't matter who applies the makeup and lift shoes.
But disguise does include a couple of factors. One of which is disguising your voice. Which I would conclude that if the player who was disguised by another talks that they use their own disguise skill. But only vs those who have heard the person they are disguised as talk.
Thus, if disguised as a random person you should be able to freely use the disguise check of another player.
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Disguise Other FTW. A scroll is only 150gp. A potion is 300gp.
Putting makeup on someone else and coaching them on how to walk and talk would be consistent with the Aid Another action.
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While the Disguise skill does not say directly that you can create a disguise for someone else... I would be hard pressed to give a reason why it shouldn't work as a GM. It shouldn't matter who applies the makeup and lift shoes.
But disguise does include a couple of factors. One of which is disguising your voice. Which I would conclude that if the player who was disguised by another talks that they use their own disguise skill. But only vs those who have heard the person they are disguised as talk.
Thus, if disguised as a random person you should be able to freely use the disguise check of another player.
I kind of disagree. A disguise is about so much more than just the physical outfit. That is the most important part, but everything else is really important too. Everything from the way you walk to, as you mentioned, the way you talk is entirely dependant on you. While someone else could certainly help with these things(aid another), they couldn't do it for you.
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I kind of disagree. A disguise is about so much more than just the physical outfit. That is the most important part, but everything else is really important too. Everything from the way you walk to, as you mentioned, the way you talk is entirely dependant on you. While someone else could certainly help with these things(aid another), they couldn't do it for you.While the Disguise skill does not say directly that you can create a disguise for someone else... I would be hard pressed to give a reason why it shouldn't work as a GM. It shouldn't matter who applies the makeup and lift shoes.
But disguise does include a couple of factors. One of which is disguising your voice. Which I would conclude that if the player who was disguised by another talks that they use their own disguise skill. But only vs those who have heard the person they are disguised as talk.
Thus, if disguised as a random person you should be able to freely use the disguise check of another player.
And yet a +2 does not seem to cover all the advantages of having someone else doing the work.
I mean, is an elf really that different than a human that someone with 0 skill in disguise can screw it up as to be obvious to everyone when someone with +40 did their makeup?|
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Elves
don't have iriseshave little to no white in their eyes.That's pretty difficult to disguise, IMO, Lol.
Plus those ears are huge.
Supposedly it is not difficult too disguise, as they obviously have some way of changing eye character. Since someone trained in disguise can, with little extra effort, disguise themselves as an elf. Even a specific elf, given an extra set of circumstances.
Or the fact that you can change your eye color to match someone of even your race. Otherwise you would immediately fail any test of 'pretend to be someone else' when looked at by someone who knows the person.
Though, you are probably joking instead of making a mechanical point.
The Disguise-kill encompaasses so much more then mere makeup. So you cant use your skill modifier in place of someone elses.
But you can use the Aid Another Action to give someone you are helping a +2.
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The Disguise-kill encompaasses so much more then mere makeup. So you cant use your skill modifier in place of someone elses.
But you can use the Aid Another Action to give someone you are helping a +2.
I do not believe anyone in this thread has disagreed on this. By RAW.
Though, I did suggest the +2 does not seem enough of a bonus given just how important the makeup and such is. So long as you are not pretending to be someone specific.Acting skills and voice modulation are nowhere near as important so long as you are dressing up as 'random elf A' or 'human florist from out of town'.
Even more so if you are not changing race, and merely trying to look like someone who isn't you. No part of that requires anything other than makeup. And/or could be replaced by a bluff or perform check.
Aid Another is an easy +2
Perceiving the others' attempt can let them Take-20, since you can advise them what is wrong. [I.e. Disguise is opposed by Perception.] Although if your Take 10 is less than their Take 20, you will need to Take 20 also, otherwise, I would limit them to your Take 10 number as a max Take 20.
Since you are aiding them while they do this, they could get a best result of +22 over their base, at the expense of prep time.
/cevah
In another thread it was mentioned that the roll is not even made until the disguise has to be check by another creature, and even then the GM rolls it secretly. The player probably can't take 10 or 20 if he can't even roll the dice.
Lorewalker, That's already taken into account by the DC of the check. Pretending to be a florist is a lot easier so the DC is a lot lower and the +2 makes a bigger difference in this case. Pretending to be someone and pulling it off to someone that knows them well is a much more difficult task, and one in which your mannerisms are much more important, which is reflected by the +2 not making nearly as much of a difference.
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As I read it, you can't make the check for someone else - dressing up is only part of it, acting the part is also involved. That's why it's Charisma-based, not Intelligence or Wisdom.
However,
You get only one Disguise check per use of the skill, even if several people make Perception checks against it. The Disguise check is made secretly, so that you can't be sure how good the result is.
Your friends could make Perception checks and give you a sense of how successful you've been at dressing up. Although you probably can't get an exact number; your friends already know who you are, so their perceptions are quite biased.
(If you're using extended double-blind trials with NPC control groups to test the quality of your disguise, you're probably Taking 20 on your preparations. Quite possibly, you're not a novice at Disguise anymore either...)
I'm with the disguise is mostly acting and only partly make-up argument. A character can be aided by others but must make the roll themselves. But this is a legitimate qualifier for the +4 circumstantial bonus for very favorable circumstances that the DM can wield with impunity in PFS.