Sneak Attack Clarification

[choyer7]

Recently I have been messing around with in combat sneak attacks and how to perform them and stumbled across something I don't know the answer to. I was messing around with a very strange Cleric/Rouge Multiclass to see the viability of the build. I realized that the Deception Subdomain includes a reactive teleport allowing you to effectively get directly behind your opponent, fully canceling their attack.

So my question is fairly simple if I was to teleport directly behind my opponent and then attack them in the back does that count as total concealment (assuming no blind sense) and therefore a trigger for a sneak attack?

I brought this up with some of the players I GM and we couldn't find a spot in the rules that indicated one way or the other.

The victim does not have line of sight, but he is not surprised. It seemed a lot like like a invisible attacker to me. A person who still qualifies for sneak attacks due to the opponents not being able to see where the strikes are coming from.

The problem being that this seems a little powerful due to how strong this ability would be considering it is obtained at first level.

Im guessing someone on the forums will have something for this one so I post it here in the hopes of resolving this question.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains /trickery-domain/deception

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue#TOC-Sneak-Attack

[Xethik]

Creatures have 360 vision, generally. Just because you are behind someone does not mean you have cover from them.

Also, I think Deception domain's power is after an attack misses you, so you can't use it to cancel an attack. Just something I noticed.

[choyer7]

Xethik wrote:

Creatures have 360 vision, generally. Just because you are behind someone does not mean you have cover from them.

Also, I think Deception domain's power is after an attack misses you, so you can't use it to cancel an attack. Just something I noticed.

IE: It would cancel a FULL attack sorry I didn't make that clear.

On the 360 vision note that can't be right because there are abilities that give you 'eyes in the back of your head" and some monsters have this trait so I think cone of vision applies.
Could be wrong though not sure. Sneak attack was always one of the hardest things to GM.

[Mulgar]

eyes in the back of your head means you can't be flanked.

You won't get concealment, if you teleport into flanking you would get sneak, otherwise no such luck

[choyer7]

In follow up to my previous comment it seems the 3.5 system has a alternate combat rules option that covers combat facing. Found here:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/combatFacing.html

This seems to be letting on to the clarification I'm looking for. Im going to see if Pathfinder has this variant rule as well.

[choyer7]

Look guys I'm not here for the short answer. I looking for interpretations of the rules to come up with a answer based on the material Pazio has provided.

[Deighton Thrane]

They've already given you the answer. There is no facing in Pathfinder. Creatures are considered to be able to see in all directions equally well, but not able to concentrate on opposite directions at once, hence why you get a flanking bonus. Concealment only comes into play if there's something blocking line of sight, or in case of invisibility or darkness.

[wraithstrike]

There is no facing. I'll post the relevant rules or the link to a more in depth explanation when I get home, if nobody beats me to it.

[Renata Maclean]

You might qualify as "not observed" long enough to make a Stealth check if you already have concealment (Not sure if teleporting can work as a diversion to hide? You're not where you were, so they have to figure out where you are now, so it should work)
But if they turn around and see you in plain view, you won't have time to sneak attack them unless you're flanking

[choyer7]

Yep I found it. The combat rules modifiers clearly shows this

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#Table-Attack-Roll-Modifiers

Still plenty of ways this could be used to some great effect so I will have to keep thinking about it some more.

I might also suggest a facing variant ruleset to some of the pathfinder guys I know. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to write. ty everyone.

[Scavion]

Further still, that ability doesn't even interrupt full attacks. If you instantly move to another adjacent location to the creature, it can still finish it's full attack routine on you.

A Fighter with three attacks who misses his first can still hit you with his 2nd or 3rd attack...or select any other enemy with those attacks that are adjacent to him.

[choyer7]

Scavion wrote:

Further still, that ability doesn't even interrupt full attacks. If you instantly move to another adjacent location to the creature, it can still finish it's full attack routine on you.

A Fighter with three attacks who misses his first can still hit you with his 2nd or 3rd attack...or select any other enemy with those attacks that are adjacent to him.

Yep just saw that, huh guess you could use step up in conjunction with this, but that doesn't seem to useful.

[choyer7]

Hmm just remembered the unwitting ally advanced rouge talent. This would be pretty fun to use with this ability.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---ro gue-advanced-talents/unwitting-ally-ex