I'm not sure if this is the right forum to post this, so I'm fine if you move the thread if it isn't. I think someone said that 25pt buy gives +1 to the APR of a party vs a 15pt buy (based off of the assumption that AP's are meant to be played with a 15pt buy) but was unsure if this was true.
What adjustment I should make if I let my players do 25pt buy? I assume it makes a difference but I'm unsure how much. Thanks in advance!
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25 point buy is not really worth an adjustment. The ability of the players matter a lot more than the point buy. If they can break the game with 25 point buy they can likely do it with 15 point buy.
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I also think it depends on your players. I had/have groups, where players strictly dont play some classes, when they have a lower point buy or play classes, that are better with high point buy, if you give them that.
So their choices are optimized anyhow, regardless of the Point Buy.
What I tend to do the last campaigns I gm'd, is giving my players a stat array worth 24 points:
16,14,14,12,12,10
Swapping out the 10 for a 7 there makes a really good 20 point array. Most of the time, I did not want my players to dumb stats hard, so I just changed it to the upper array. It's like a 20 point buy without a dumb stat.
So ask yourself, how your players behave with character building. If they have an easy time with your adventure path, it's mostly 'cause these paths are not hard in general.
You can also compare 15 to 25 point buy in these ways:
These 10 point will raise their defense, offense or utility. For some classes, increasing one stat gives two, sometimes even three of these raises.
If my players would raise their utility (like not dumping stats, get more skills point etc.) I actually have a better time as a GM. Most of my players wouldn't, so I came to use the array above.
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#Edit:
Here's a specific case:
Imagine there is Fighter with 15 points to spend. Let's say he takes this array:
STR 16
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 7
Now you give that character 10 more points:
There are players that'd go like this:
STR 18
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 7
They now increased their offense and defense. Some might tend to raise WIS instead of DEX, but that are details.
Then there are players having another thought process:
"Wow, 10 more point, now I can get even more skill points and I don't have to dump my CHA. Getting 13 INT also let me take Combat Expertise, which I'd like."
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 12
CHA 10
This character now has the same amount of defense but mostly utility.
Of course there a racial adjustments and stuff. If your whole group will take the first approach, you will notice that in some encounters. Though, it won't wreck the whole adventure path.
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Yeah, per the monster rules, you need +4 to all your stats and +2 Natural Armor to raise your effective level by 1 (the Advanced Simple Template).
25 point-buy is nice, but with optimal chargen it gives maybe +1 to hit and damage (or Save DC), and a +1 or +2 to some Saves of secondary importance. Maybe a few hp.
It's super nice, especially for MAD characters, but it's not a CR worth of difference.
For example:
15 point-buy Barbarian:
Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 7 Wis 13 Cha 7
25 point-buy version:
Str 18 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 7
That's +1 to one Saves, an extra HP per level, and three skill points per level better. Definitely not a CR of difference, though it'd be more fun in play.
Now let's look at Wizards:
15 point-buy:
Str 7 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 20 Wis 7 Cha 7
25 point-buy:
Str 7 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 20 Wis 11 Cha 7
That's +1 AC, +1 to one Save and +2 to another. No other changes.
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In both cases, that's around 2 Feats of actual improvement in combat stats. 2 Feats are not worth a CR.
Now, in actual play it means a bit more than that, especially in terms of skills, but it's not actually that big a deal in terms of combat effectiveness.
Lower levels of optimization can make the difference matter a bit more, but not all that much. People tend to make equally optimal (or suboptimal) characters regardless of how many points they have to spend.
Be aware that you can't always use CR as a guide for character usefulness though. If you give a monster fast healing of 1, then its CR likely won't change. But a player with fast healing of 1 starts every fight with full hp.
I use a 25 point buy in all the games I run, but I add a couple of conditions. You are only allowed a single dump stat and no stat below 6, or over 20 including racial bonuses. This leads to more rounded characters and avoids the typical village idiot type characters. I have had one player who wanted two dump stats for a concept, but I did not give him extra points for dumping the second stat. This allows players to play M.A.D. classes but Keeps the S.A.D. classes in check.
I generally prefer powerful characters in games I run so I don’t have to treat them with kid’s gloves. My monsters tend to use tactics and strategies when appropriate and often the players make poor decisions so this gives them a needed edge.
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I use a 25 point buy in all the games I run, but I add a couple of conditions. You are only allowed a single dump stat and no stat below 6, or over 20 including racial bonuses. This leads to more rounded characters and avoids the typical village idiot type characters. I have had one player who wanted two dump stats for a concept, but I did not give him extra points for dumping the second stat. This allows players to play M.A.D. classes but Keeps the S.A.D. classes in check.
I generally prefer powerful characters in games I run so I don’t have to treat them with kid’s gloves. My monsters tend to use tactics and strategies when appropriate and often the players make poor decisions so this gives them a needed edge.
I do something similar, though I'm even more restrictive, since I don't allow stats above 16 or below 8 before racials in addition to the restrictions you list.
It helps to restrain SAD casters a little, which is good.