Where can I find the “Myth: Psionics is Broken” info for Pathfinder? I plan on doing a podcast about it, and would like some reference material to link in the description.
Some of the arguments against it’s balance I have heard recently include “any system with a ‘spell pool’ is broken because they can burn all there pool on their stronger stuff.” I explained that you could, but would also be out of you lower stuff if you did.
In fact, if anyone has some things they think are worth bringing up, let me know!
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There are tons of theads on this. It used to be hot topic.
I will see if I can find some old links here.
Many of the arguments repeat themselves, but occasionally a new gem will be found.
Here in the first post are the psionic myths
Click the button that is under ""Myth: the XPH is overpowered""
Many of them don't apply to DSP's version of psionics since they changed a few rules so be sure to check out any differences.
Have you ever used psionics in your game
1. One thing I stress is that Magic-Psionic transparency should always be used.
2. If you are the type of GM who only has one or two combats per day the players might NOVA.
3. If you allow the PC's to rest when they want, and the bad guys do not ever adjust this could also lead to nova'ing.
4. Learn the rules for how psionics work. Many times the complaints come down to people not knowing the rules, more so than a playstyle being the problem.
In the case of 2 and 3 you may not want to allow psionics.
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Disclaimer: I’ve done some freelance work with Dreamscarred Press, including a psionic class. Grain of salt and all that. Though obviously that’s also a rather ringing endorsement from me :P
2. If you are the type of GM who only has one or two combats per day the players might NOVA.
3. If you allow the PC's to rest when they want, and the bad guys do not ever adjust this could also lead to nova'ing.
In the case of 2 and 3 you may not want to allow psionics.
Manifesters aren’t really any better at nova than spellcasters. But you haven’t mentioned the cardinal rule of psionics, and if you in fact missed it, then yes, nova is a huge problem with psionics.
The cardinal rule of psionics is,
Thou shalt not spend more power points than thy manifester level.
Special cases (e.g. the wilder’s wild surge class feature or the Overchannel feat) increase manifester level (and thus allow more power points to be used), but no matter what you cannot use more power points than your manifester level.
Manifester level is like caster level, and is generally equal to your class level. Power points are the psionic equivalent of spell slots, and allowing someone to use more power points than their manifester level is like allowing a 3rd-level spellcaster to use Empower Spell on a 2nd-level spell, by burning a separate 2nd-level spell slot. Obviously, that would be some serious nova potential, and it is just so with manifesters if you let them use more power points than their manifester level. So don’t; the rules say not to for a reason.
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2. If you are the type of GM who only has one or two combats per day the players might NOVA.
3. If you allow the PC's to rest when they want, and the bad guys do not ever adjust this could also lead to nova'ing.
In the case of 2 and 3 you may not want to allow psionics.
Manifesters aren’t really any better at nova than spellcasters. But you haven’t mentioned the cardinal rule of psionics, and if you in fact missed it, then yes, nova is a huge problem with psionics.
The cardinal rule of psionics is,
Thou shalt not spend more power points than thy manifester level.Special cases (e.g. the wilder’s wild surge class feature or the Overchannel feat) increase manifester level (and thus allow more power points to be used), but no matter what you cannot use more power points than your manifester level.
This is somewhat true, and I have said it in past debates that casters can Nova, but due to the ability to burn all of their power points psionics gets a harder rap.
PS: For those watching, burning through power points without being conservative is a bad idea in most games. You will end up twiddling your thumbs if you are not careful.
Thanks! You have given me a lot to read through.
There does not appear to be a "Myth: Psionics is Overpowered" for pathfinder yet, that one link up there appears to be for 3.5, unless I am blind.
Thanks! You have given me a lot to read through.
There does not appear to be a "Myth: Psionics is Overpowered" for pathfinder yet, that one link up there appears to be for 3.5, unless I am blind.
If I recall correctly, it was originally written (yes, for 3.5) by Jeremy at Dreamscarred Press, i.e. one of the guys in charge of bringing psionics over to Pathfinder to begin with.
I also wrote a thing on the balance of 3.5 psionics, if you're interested; the DSP port is pretty faithful to the original, though with some clean-up, including some nerfs to the higher-power options and some improvements to the lower-power options.
Special cases (e.g. the wilder’s wild surge class feature or the Overchannel feat) increase manifester level (and thus allow more power points to be used), but no matter what you cannot use more power points than your manifester level.
There is one specific exception to this rule. The Tactician's Echo Effect - Ultimate Psionics pg 68.
spend more power points than his manifester level on
this effect.
This kind of reads as a way to break the cardinal rule of Psionics for future abilities.
Thanks! You have given me a lot to read through.
There does not appear to be a "Myth: Psionics is Overpowered" for pathfinder yet, that one link up there appears to be for 3.5, unless I am blind.
There isn't one because the one for 3.5 answers most of the questions, assuming the ability still works the same, and DSP took care of most of the legit issues when they made their version.
over on the dreamscarred press forums I found it (someone was able to save it and was kind enough to post it):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g8ouylg00zejkz6/UltimatePsionics_MythOverpowered. pdf?dl=0
Where can I find the “Myth: Psionics is Broken” info for Pathfinder? I plan on doing a podcast about it, and would like some reference material to link in the description.
Some of the arguments against it’s balance I have heard recently include “any system with a ‘spell pool’ is broken because they can burn all there pool on their stronger stuff.” I explained that you could, but would also be out of you lower stuff if you did.
In fact, if anyone has some things they think are worth bringing up, let me know!
Do you have any experience in running or playing in a psionics campaign? Do you understand or have any experience the many different types of psionics that TSR and WOTC put out, including the original system from First Edition which gave psionics it's deserved bad reputation? (Even it's creator, Gary Gygax, called it. "The worst mistake I ever made.")
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Do you have any experience in running or playing in a psionics campaign? Do you understand or have any experience the many different types of psionics that TSR and WOTC put out, including the original system from First Edition which gave psionics it's deserved bad reputation? (Even it's creator, Gary Gygax, called it. "The worst mistake I ever made.")Where can I find the “Myth: Psionics is Broken” info for Pathfinder? I plan on doing a podcast about it, and would like some reference material to link in the description.
Some of the arguments against it’s balance I have heard recently include “any system with a ‘spell pool’ is broken because they can burn all there pool on their stronger stuff.” I explained that you could, but would also be out of you lower stuff if you did.
In fact, if anyone has some things they think are worth bringing up, let me know!
I do. Modern psionics is not its ancestor systems and needs to be judged on its own merits.
Do you have any experience in running or playing in a psionics campaign? Do you understand or have any experience the many different types of psionics that TSR and WOTC put out, including the original system from First Edition which gave psionics it's deserved bad reputation? (Even it's creator, Gary Gygax, called it. "The worst mistake I ever made.")Where can I find the “Myth: Psionics is Broken” info for Pathfinder? I plan on doing a podcast about it, and would like some reference material to link in the description.
Some of the arguments against it’s balance I have heard recently include “any system with a ‘spell pool’ is broken because they can burn all there pool on their stronger stuff.” I explained that you could, but would also be out of you lower stuff if you did.
In fact, if anyone has some things they think are worth bringing up, let me know!
All of my Games since 3.5 have had psionics in them. either as a player or as a DM. That isn't really the point though; I am info gathering what, at this point, is looking like a multi-episode endeaver.
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As someone who plays Psionic characters in preference to arcane/divine casters almost exclusively when available, I would also like to point out that as with any 3pp supplement, there are abilities within each of those classes that aren't available elsewhere.
This is a huge contributor to the "psionics are overpowered" myth that is fairly prevalent with GMs that are ill-prepared do deal with them.
An example is the collective. This ability simply does not exist within any other class in Pathfinder.
It is a very versatile ability, but one thing that has to be pointed out is that a great many of the abilities of collective-having classes is limited to members of the collective. A good portion of the abilities cannot be used outside of that limited list of people.
Also, there are psionic powers who's descriptions don't exist in Pathfinder (currently as well). This often frustrates GMs and frustrated GMs often declare "psionics is overpowered" as a catch all for their dislike of things they don't know how to handle.
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Do you have any experience in running or playing in a psionics campaign? Do you understand or have any experience the many different types of psionics that TSR and WOTC put out, including the original system from First Edition which gave psionics it's deserved bad reputation? (Even it's creator, Gary Gygax, called it. "The worst mistake I ever made.")Where can I find the “Myth: Psionics is Broken” info for Pathfinder? I plan on doing a podcast about it, and would like some reference material to link in the description.
Some of the arguments against it’s balance I have heard recently include “any system with a ‘spell pool’ is broken because they can burn all there pool on their stronger stuff.” I explained that you could, but would also be out of you lower stuff if you did.
In fact, if anyone has some things they think are worth bringing up, let me know!
A lot of people judge 3.5/PF psionics by earlier versions. Be ready for it when you do the podcast, OP.