Have you ever used Psionics in your games?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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I've been reading up on them more and they seem cool; I've always been a fan of psychic powers in fiction anyway. How often do people use them, if ever?


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I have use them, and I like the system. If you allow them as a GM make sure the psionic/magic transparency rule is in place, and make sure the players know the rules.

Also be aware that if you only have one or two fights a day, and/or if you let the players rest in enemy HQ without letting the enemies account for it, then the players may start to Nova.

Once that is done you should be ok.


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Love it! Available for use in absolutely all my campaigns. Psions are my most played class, and I'm presently looking to play a Vitalist once I finish GMing a Pathfinder E6 campaign.

Always remember the critical rule of "You cannot spend more power points on a power then your manifester level." This is often the overlooked rule that leads to "Psionics is OP". Also it is important to know that Psionics is more balanced then other "casters" and tends to be more familiar to players then the Vancian system other casters use, thanks to mana systems being more common.


Per the psionic-magic transparency, psionics are spell-like abilities by another name. Technically, anyone who uses spell-like abilities is using psionics, whether they acknowledge it or not. If you don't have SLAs in the game, you have to do quite a bit of house ruling:)

If you are asking whether I have used those classes, the answer is yes, I do, and quite regularly.


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I've used it several times, and will second wraith and Anzyr on the psionics rules being very fun to use.

Dark Archive

I enjoyed playing psychic warriors twice before. Once as a sword and board, slow but heavy AC style and another as a 2 handed weapon, light on her feet style. Immensely enjoyed both. I wouldn't mind playing them again though it would.be tempting to try something different like a Soulblade, ardent or.lurk from complete Psionics or some of the new classes from ultimate Psionics.

I look forward to playing a Psion blaster type one day. I know blasting is considered weak but I think.I could have fun with how Psionics allow you to choose the energy type on the fly. I also like.how if you know several blast powers, that also gives you the freedom to really choose the shape of the area of effect also. I find this combo so appealing, I am nit even interested in playing an Arcane caster who has to marry thier shape/level/energy all together with very little choice.in execution in comparison to a Psionic manifestor.

The 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook was going to have a psychic rogue, but it got left on the cutting room floor. It was released as a free web enhancement. Same way I have no interest in an arcane caster, I would much rather play a psychic rogue than any regular or archetype rogue or any prestige class for rogues.

I cuncur with what wrIth strike has suggested. If you know you would rather have less encounters per day. You may want to discuss with the players voluntary reduction of power points per day so they cannot nova. Try to throw in a reassurance that they would have those points left over in an Attack.while sleeping occured to try and make it less harsh for players who already responcibly spend their points in a conservative matter.

You can always give Psionics a trial run. Let the.players know tbat if you feel uncomfortable with the results, they will need to trade in the PC. This way they are wRned nit to get to attached and you have a predefined defense that they knew what they were getting into before they chanced the commitment.


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I should also note Dreamscarred Press did the Psionics conversion for Pathfinder and did a fantastic job on it. They even made the incredibly terrible 3.5 Soulknife into a playable class!


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I've used them and love them.

I just don't use them frequently on here because there is a lot of psionics-unfriendliness here.


I'm looking forward to running Dragon's Demand and a few small excursions with them, though I would much rather be a player being able to use them than a GM of a group that likely won't use them.


As a player, I use psionic feats and classes often. As a DM, I allow them without worry in games with 9th level casting classes.

I recommend psionics, and I'll echo Anzyr's Dreamscarred Press comment. They do wonderful work.

Shadow Lodge

I love soulknives
Thrallherd is very interesting

The Exchange

I used them as an occasional spice in 3rd Edition times, but haven't looked into integrating them in Pathfinder. To be honest my fondness for them is more a matter of wanting mind flayers, githyanki, and yuan-ti to have 'psychic' power rather than magic; and since PF can't use any of those monsters (though they did get to keep the intellect devourer, another fine example), I haven't been in a rush to import either the 3.5 system or Dreamscarred's.


Raymond Lambert wrote:
I could have fun with how Psionics allow you to choose the energy type on the fly.

While the energy powers do not marry energy types with areas of effect like fireball and lightning bolt, you can only decide the energy type on the fly if you are a kineticist (a psion specializing in psychokinesis powers). Others must choose an active energy type, that all energy powers then use, when they gain focus. Regaining psionic focus is a full-round action.


houser2112 wrote:
Raymond Lambert wrote:
I could have fun with how Psionics allow you to choose the energy type on the fly.
While the energy powers do not marry energy types with areas of effect like fireball and lightning bolt, you can only decide the energy type on the fly if you are a kineticist (a psion specializing in psychokinesis powers). Others must choose an active energy type, that all energy powers then use, when they gain focus. Regaining psionic focus is a full-round action.

Though you can take it down to a move action if you take the Psionic Meditation feat. And really, that feat is a must-have for any psionic who plans to do a lot of casting.


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I like psionics more than I like magic. The system is simply better, and makes more sense than spell slots. With DSP having some more psi classes to round things out, I'm half tempted to do a game with just pure martial classes and psionics.


I've only had one psionic character that I've DMed, barring 4e mind you. It didn't go well, it was partly my fault and partly the players. I was swamped with DMing and couldn't read through them carefully. I am allowing a Soulknife in my new game but that's only because the player built the character before I had a chance to inform them that I won't be using Psionics.

On principle I don't have a problem with Psionics, my favorite setting uses them quite a bit, I just am in the dark about them for the most part.


Toujours wrote:

I've only had one psionic character that I've DMed, barring 4e mind you. It didn't go well, it was partly my fault and partly the players. I was swamped with DMing and couldn't read through them carefully. I am allowing a Soulknife in my new game but that's only because the player built the character before I had a chance to inform them that I won't be using Psionics.

On principle I don't have a problem with Psionics, my favorite setting uses them quite a bit, I just am in the dark about them for the most part.

Soulknife and Aegis are good classes for GMs/groups that are interested in psionics, but don't have a solid grasp of the rules yet. They're still psionic classes, but they don't draw nearly as heavily on all the psionics rules, so you won't get completely swamped with new mechanics to learn.


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I'm going to be playing a gestalt alchemist (mindchemist, psychonaut)/psion (nomad). The theme is psychotropic consciousness-expanding funtimes. Psychic powers have long been associated with recreational drugs. It fits. :)

The trippy nomad's best bud (another PC joining the game at the same time) is a monk (qigong sensei)/vitalist (lifedrinker) that appears as a haggard, emaciated man in chains (vow of chains) that stands there shuddering and wailing disturbingly (buffing/healing the party and debuffing/harming enemies through sensei and vitalist powers).


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I use psionics incredibly frequently. As a GM, I find psionic characters are generally easier to deal with as NPCs due to being able to track resources more easily. I find there is less paperwork when you have a few statblocks with some powers on them, and instead of tracking a ton of different resources (IE - individual spells) you instead have one resource that is no more difficult than tracking HP.

Psionics is also incredibly refluffable. I use psionics for mages, psychics, and spiritualists frequently. Sometimes if I want a character who is magical in nature, psionics fits the bill well there too. For example, in a friend's game I played a Tiefling Psion (egoist/shaper dual-disciple) whose psionic powers were manifestations of her strange otherworldly heritage. Her "psicrystal" was a possessed, dirty minded, voodoo doll that frequently got chucked around like a hacky sack.

The Exchange

I love them and have made a home game world heavily focused on using them

The Exchange

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As long as we're talking about the psi-loving niche market, it would be nice to see archetypes for the ranger, paladin, and perhaps even the bard which swapped out their spellcasting for psi.


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We have used it a few times now.

Really like the system a lot better than Vancian spell casting.

Few of things to consider.

1) As a GM you have to watch out even more for characters that can nova and blow all their points in a short time to take on almost anything. If you allow the '15 minute adventuring day' you will have to really scale things up and then you run the danger of a TPK.

2) As a player, the psionic classes get so few powers known that it is sometimes difficult to cover all of the 'necessary' utility/buff/healing stuff and still have the fun powerful stuff you want.

3) Requires a bit more re-writing by the GM since almost none of the published material has any psionics in it so won't have any psionic opponents or gear.


Lincoln Hills wrote:
As long as we're talking about the psi-loving niche market, it would be nice to see archetypes for the ranger, paladin, and perhaps even the bard which swapped out their spellcasting for psi.

Ultimate Psionics has archetypes for Ranger and Paladin that swap out spellcasting for manifesting. The Bard archetype doesn't, but gives you a Collective.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

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Psionics are fantastic and one of my favorite subsystems. The new Ultimate Psionics book has pretty much become become a staple at my table.

Psionics from Dreamscarred Press are actually incredibly well balanced, with class for pretty much every role and every social or combat niche. I do generally recommend that a prospective GM keep a few salient points in mind though:

1) The "golden rule" of psionics. You can never spend more pp on an ability than your manifester level. People who think you can blow 5 power points at first level for a 5d10 mind thrust are actually unfamiliar with one of the most important rules.

2) Active Energy type. Any ability that deals energy damage of your active energy type deals a specific type of damage that you need to select at the start of the day. The only way to change this is to select a new energy type when you regain your psionic focus, at which point it applies to all of the powers that key off of your active energy. The kineticist is the only one who gets to break this rule, and he's balanced with that in mind.

3) Spending and regaining psionic focus. A lot of abilities require you to spend your psionic focus as part of the action used to activate them. Regaining your psionic focus is a full round action (or a move action if you have Psionic Meditation), so be aware what abilities your player has that require him to spend his focus and make sure he's taking the appropriate actions to regain it before using any of those abilities again.

Those are basically the big three that people tend to miss or misunderstand and which can cause issues in game. As long you're on top of them psionics is actually probably better balanced and easier to use than most of the core casting classes.


wraithstrike wrote:

I have use them, and I like the system. If you allow them as a GM make sure the psionic/magic transparency rule is in place, and make sure the players know the rules.

Also be aware that if you only have one or two fights a day, and/or if you let the players rest in enemy HQ without letting the enemies account for it, then the players may start to Nova.

Once that is done you should be ok.

I just bought the Ultimate Psionics book and I love it! It adds a lot to my gaming table, looking forward to try it in the Emerald Spire superdungeon. One of my players insist on playing a human rather than a psionic race, because humans can do everything!


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Regarding Focus Usage: One of the main things that uses it up is metapsi abilities. If you want to empower a spell, you just use a higher spell slot. If you want to empower a psionic power, you not only pay the increased PPs equivalent to going up a slot, but you ALSO expend your psionic focus to manifest it with empower.

This means you cannot readily use multiple meta'd abilities over and over round after round. Gotta recover focus, and need Deep Focus or Psicrystal Containment just to double-tap on metas.

Overall, anything coming out of the psionics system puts arcane and divine magic to bloody shame when it comes to balancing. Be aware though that you'll occasionally get some very thorough explanations as to just how broken psionics are: These generally use erroneous information (usually bull**** on "oh I didn't know" claims regarding PP/Manifester Level expenditure limits; it's almost always conveniently ignored for arguments) or are anecdotal "friend of a friend of an acquaintance of a coworker of a student of a buddy" bits about some guy having read the book and discovered just how broken it truly was.

Now go roll up an Aegis with Machineguns and revel in being totally and utterly average-yet-versatile despite what that all sounds like!

Dark Archive

Dreamscarred's stuff is awesome. I play and gm and have used psionics on both sides of the table. I don't find them anymore unbalanced than any other class. If just depends on who is playing them and how they choose to play. My players all play pathfinder to role play not min max so I'm lucky I guess.


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Lincoln Hills wrote:
As long as we're talking about the psi-loving niche market, it would be nice to see archetypes for the ranger, paladin, and perhaps even the bard which swapped out their spellcasting for psi.

The psionic bard, which, if I remember correctly, was made for one of the 3.5 psionic books and wound up being cut due to space concerns, if some of the things I've read are to be believed.

Silver Crusade

I use it as a major part of my campaign setting, although its sort of 'in the background.' I limit it to very few species and make it generally rare in appearance though as I use the 'psionics are different' rule.

Its mostly the behest of an elder species with unknown aims, who utilize psionic weapons akin either advanced or modern firearms, and whose standard tactic involves showing up with magic dampening gear.

I do admit though that stuff like Time Punch always ended up being a little on the ridiculous side (Had a wilder time punch a tree away to cause the bad guys hiding in it, to fall).


Jamie Charlan wrote:
This means you cannot readily use multiple meta'd abilities over and over round after round.

False. There are feats (two, I think) that allow you to regain your focus as a move action, turning manifesting with meta-psionics into a pseudo full-round action. A better limit to point out is the difficulty in applying two different meta-psionic feats to the same power :)


Justin Sane wrote:
There are feats (two, I think) that allow you to regain your focus as a move action.

I'm aware of Psionic Meditation, what's the other? It better be damn good, or count as PM, because there are a lot of feats that directly depend on it.


Woops, my bad. I guess I mis-remembered what Deep Focus did :)

The rest of my point still stands, tho.


Lincoln Hills wrote:
As long as we're talking about the psi-loving niche market, it would be nice to see archetypes for the ranger, paladin, and perhaps even the bard which swapped out their spellcasting for psi.

In Ultimate Psionics there's a paladin archetype called the Purifier that trades spellcasting for manifesting. The bard archetype doesn't lose spellcasting but gains a collective and I don't remember offhand what the ranger trades out.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
FanaticRat wrote:
I've been reading up on them more and they seem cool; I've always been a fan of psychic powers in fiction anyway. How often do people use them, if ever?

In my home games? Exactly once. only one player ever requested a psi character, and psionics were only a niche part of my world.


houser2112 wrote:
Justin Sane wrote:
There are feats (two, I think) that allow you to regain your focus as a move action.
I'm aware of Psionic Meditation, what's the other? It better be damn good, or count as PM, because there are a lot of feats that directly depend on it.

I dunno about more Psionic Meditation, but the feat "Deep Meditation" is pretty awesome. It lets you have 2 psionic focuses.


Cavian wrote:
In Ultimate Psionics there's a paladin archetype called the Purifier that trades spellcasting for manifesting. The bard archetype doesn't lose spellcasting but gains a collective and I don't remember offhand what the ranger trades out.

Hmm, sounds familiar...

houser2112 wrote:
Ultimate Psionics has archetypes for Ranger and Paladin that swap out spellcasting for manifesting. The Bard archetype doesn't, but gives you a Collective.

:)


LazarX wrote:
FanaticRat wrote:
I've been reading up on them more and they seem cool; I've always been a fan of psychic powers in fiction anyway. How often do people use them, if ever?
In my home games? Exactly once. only one player ever requested a psi character, and psionics were only a niche part of my world.

You've only ever used spell-like abilities once? You've never had monsters use spell-like abilities?

EDIT: Or are you one of those people who house-rules to eliminate the magic-psionic transparency?

Silver Crusade

I have used psionics in the past as a GM and a player. I like the system allot. I havn't had the chance to use Dream Scarred Press's stuff but I would like to do so.


I have used as a GM and a player. As a GM it is great to throw something different at the PCs occasionally. As a player I played a psychic warrior to lvl 20 in Age of Worms. I had a great time.


Psionics are awesome.
DSP psionics are well written and fun.


137ben wrote:
LazarX wrote:
FanaticRat wrote:
I've been reading up on them more and they seem cool; I've always been a fan of psychic powers in fiction anyway. How often do people use them, if ever?
In my home games? Exactly once. only one player ever requested a psi character, and psionics were only a niche part of my world.

You've only ever used spell-like abilities once? You've never had monsters use spell-like abilities?

EDIT: Or are you one of those people who house-rules to eliminate the magic-psionic transparency?

What makes psionics psionics is not that they're not spells. It's the whole power point system that SLAs do not have.


For reference, Kineticists aren't the only ones who can shift energy types without expending focus. Wilders can as well, but only while Wild Surging.


FanaticRat wrote:
I've been reading up on them more and they seem cool; I've always been a fan of psychic powers in fiction anyway. How often do people use them, if ever?

In the last Pathfinder campaign I played in I was a soulknife.

I really like the on/off mechanics and resource management choices of psionic focus and vital strike.

I allow them in my game but nobody has used it.

I used psionic monsters of various sorts from various editions of d20 and various psionic variants in my games as a DM. Statted out psions never showed up though. I mostly used predone stat block opponents and there are very few ready to go statblocks for psionic classed opponents. Also referencing psion powers solely by name is not nearly as easy for me to remember and use as the core spells on NPC spell lists or SLA lists.


GhanjRho wrote:
For reference, Kineticists aren't the only ones who can shift energy types without expending focus. Wilders can as well, but only while Wild Surging.

At first I thought I had missed this because I just don't like Wilders, but I can't find a reference to that. Can you tell me where you read that?


Hi!

You can find the information under Psionic Powers, or linked here under Energy Powers

Hope that helps!

- Andreas Rönnqvist
Dreamscarred Press


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A while ago but made a unicorn pony soulknife named Star Charmer. It was beyond amazing. I haven't had the chance to deal with much more psionics but what I have used yielded spectacular results.


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I've been negatively inclined toward psionics in fantasy since 1st-edition AD&D. I felt that the flavor doesn't mesh well in the fantasy stories I wanted to tell in my Dungeons and Dragons games. I've also had some major problems with having a completely different game mechanic system that did more-or-less exactly what magic already did.

TSR/WotC continued the flavor mis-match and system dichotomy for psionics in both AD&D 2e and in D&D 3.x.

The 3.x psionics system (including DSP's updaiting of it for the PFRPG) are very well thought-out, and balanced systems. However, I just don't see the point of introducing another full game mechanic system that's pretty much equivalent to magic. Consequently, even though it's a fine system, I don't use it.

There is "psychic magic" in my game, to represent things like ESP, telepathy, psychokinesis, object reading, pain suppression, etc. It's essentially a sorcerer bloodline/archetye.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Haladir wrote:
I've been negatively inclined toward psionics in fantasy since 1st-edition AD&D.

Gary Gygax called it "The biggest mistake I ever made.", in reference to the original psionic rules in the DMG.


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Haladir wrote:

I've been negatively inclined toward psionics in fantasy since 1st-edition AD&D. I felt that the flavor doesn't mesh well in the fantasy stories I wanted to tell in my Dungeons and Dragons games. I've also had some major problems with having a completely different game mechanic system that did more-or-less exactly what magic already did.

TSR/WotC continued the flavor mis-match and system dichotomy for psionics in both AD&D 2e and in D&D 3.x.

The 3.x psionics system (including DSP's updaiting of it for the PFRPG) are very well thought-out, and balanced systems. However, I just don't see the point of introducing another full game mechanic system that's pretty much equivalent to magic. Consequently, even though it's a fine system, I don't use it.

There is "psychic magic" in my game, to represent things like ESP, telepathy, psychokinesis, object reading, pain suppression, etc. It's essentially a sorcerer bloodline/archetye.

Well, I always thought the early edition psionics were a real hash and poorly thought out.

I agree, not every fantasy universe had something akin to psionics in them. However, there were an awful lot that had at least a different kind of magic that came entirely from within the practitioner rather than manipulating some outside force. For me, that is where psionics fits in.

I do wish there wasn't as much overlap of effects between psionics, divine magic, and arcane magic. I think they should be substantially different.

The DSP psionic system is, in my personal opinion, much better than the D&D/PF magic system. It is much closer to what is in the novels, legends, movies, etc... I really wish the magic system had been created the same way.

If you want your high level dude to use minor powers all day long, you can (since it costs a relatively minor amount of personal power). If you want to really amp up one of you early powers, you can. If you want just a few uses of the most powerful thing you can do, go for it (you can use all your power points on only the highest level power you know). If you want to push yourself to the very brink and maybe beyond for spectacular effects, then kaboom (wilder surge). This much more closely matches what you see/read.
Dresden can cast simple finding or lighting spells all day long. But if he is being attacked and has to keep up the most powerful shield for a while, he is drained and can't do any more magic.

The only time you see anything even close to the magic system in PF is when the author is obviously making a DnD based story or the old Jack Vance novels (which I have never read, but I heard they are good).
This is a long time pet peeve of mine, but I know it isn't changing any time soon.


Andreas Rönnqvist wrote:

Hi!

You can find the information under Psionic Powers, or linked here under Energy Powers

Hope that helps!

- Andreas Rönnqvist
Dreamscarred Press

Ah, I was looking for it under the Wild Surge class feature itself.

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