Final Sacrifice & School Familiar's Greater School Power (Conjuration)

[Bendicott]

How do Final Sacrifice & School Familiar's Greater School Power (Conjuration), Summoned Shell, interact? Would the familiar be damaged, as the conjuration is slain before damage takes place, or would the entire effect of the spell occur before the familiar popped out?

[Bendicott]

Bump

[Gilarius]

Interesting. It appears to be unclear, along with any rules about what happens to the familiar if the summoned creature it is 'wearing' is slain by any means other than hit point damage.

For this particular pairing, I'd ask the player and then stick to that answer:
Either the familiar is slain by Final Sacrifice, or it is ejected but subject to the area damage from the spell.

If ejection is chosen (I don't think that anyone would choose otherwise), then I'd also rule that ejection happens whenever the summoned creature is 'killed' by any other effect that isn't hit point damage.
There's no mention of the familiar being able to leave except by the spell expiring, so incapacitation of the summoned creature would also incapacitate the familiar.

[Bendicott]

It's a cool ability, but it's rather poorly written. It's odd that there is no provision for the familiar leaving the body early, as there is in pretty much every other possession~style ability. Also, it's (afaik) unique in that its body comes along for the ride (at least, that's how I'm reading it, since there is no mention of it lying helpless on the ground somewhere).

[Bendicott]

Gilarius wrote:

There's no mention of the familiar being able to leave except by the spell expiring, so incapacitation of the summoned creature would also incapacitate the familiar.

Yeah, that was basically my concern, if I end up using it. If, say, an enemy caster uses Control Summoned Creature (or any number of similar spells) the familiar's owner could really use a panic button.

[graystone]

Why would an ejected familiar be right next to the creature? It works "within the spell's range" so it can start up many feet away. Secondly, it never says it PHYSICALLY inhabit the body. It's just as possible that it works like magic jar and it's mind/soul wanders in while leaving the body behind. Thirdly, it says "expelled without suffering any negative effects". It dealing damage because it died sounds like a negative effect.

So for multiple reasons, I don't see the familiar in any danger. I just can't see that expelled means touching the summoned creature when they can start the process tens of feet away even if you assume it's a physical integration and you ignore the protection from negative effects.

Having said that, it is indeed a poorly thought out ability with many things left unsaid for the end user to figure out.

[Bendicott]

In such a scenario, I'd be interested to see how different GMs would rule regarding whether or not the conjuration gets a will save. I.e., does the enemy caster gain control over the familar's mind, or do they just seize control of the summoning, leaving the familiar trapped inside? In such a case, I would guess that a save is still needed, since the familiar no long has control.