Can a Mindblade Magus use his or her Psychic Pool to create a Technological weapon such as a Chainsaw or Monowhip?
Sidebar, not specifically rules related:
If so, is this legal for PFS?
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No, and NO.
A DPS Psywarrior with Call Weaponry 1st level power can (but limited to 20 ammo or charges according to text).
But it is also not PFS legal (but only because Psywarrior is still 3rd party)
Other than no and no, is there a citation or reference for that answer?
I actually think a mind blade can, as long as he is familiar with the weapon, and as long as such weapons exist in the campaign world of course. IOW, ask your GM.
It is not PFS legal because such weapon aren't PFS legal unless you get them on a chronicle.
The mindblade can manifest a light, one handed or two handed melee weapon with no described restrictions anywhere in the text.
Laser torch, stun baton, monowhip, null blade and chainsaw all fall under those categories. So yes.
No rules for how much charge such weapons have though.
Paladin is right on the legality of such weapons though in PFS.
The mindblade can manifest a light, one handed or two handed melee weapon with no described restrictions anywhere in the text.
Laser torch, stun baton, monowhip, null blade and chainsaw all fall under those categories. So yes.
They fall under a separate category of technological weapons which is NOT covered by the power.
They fall under a separate category of technological weapons which is NOT covered by the power.The mindblade can manifest a light, one handed or two handed melee weapon with no described restrictions anywhere in the text.
Laser torch, stun baton, monowhip, null blade and chainsaw all fall under those categories. So yes.
The weapons are listed as light and one handed weapons. The general category of Technological weapons is like the category Eastern Weapons or gladiator weapons or primitive weapons, all of which would be legal for this ability and for PFS.
The weapons are listed as light and one handed weapons. The general category of Technological weapons is like the category Eastern Weapons or gladiator weapons or primitive weapons, all of which would be legal for this ability and for PFS.They fall under a separate category of technological weapons which is NOT covered by the power.
Well, that is the issue in question, not a settled fact. Chainsaw mindblades right out of the box is obviously not intended, and therefore the burden of proof that it MUST be allowed falls upon the munchkin. I have not yet seen it satisfied.
For pfs play, it's fortunately irrelevant, and at my table, you will bring me a beer, a good one, for even asking.
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Well, that is the issue in question, not a settled fact. Chainsaw mindblades right out of the box is obviously not intended, and therefore the burden of proof that it MUST be allowed falls upon the munchkin. I have not yet seen it satisfied.
For pfs play, it's fortunately irrelevant, and at my table, you will bring me a beer, a good one, for even asking.
If you only allow what is "intended", then most characters that people make and play at tables (and aren't disruptive) cannot exist. Unless you want to argue that the Paizo Design Team constantly pours through thousands of crappy filler options to check if it breaks whatever rules element they happen to be working on, which isn't exactly likely.
Not that I am supporting a Magus forming functioning Chainsaws, but the sort of objection you are pushing can be used to block almost anything from play, being only marginally better than "because I don't like it" as a rules argument. It's better to say that yes, there isn't anything expressly prohibiting a magus from forming chainsaws, but there also aren't any rules saying whether or not you get free charges in them, and it's a potentially disruptive option anyway and the technological rules aren't that well written* so you personally wouldn't allow it at your table.
*for an example, it doesn't prohibit threads like this from happening as written
If you only allow what is "intended", then most characters that people make and play at tables (and aren't disruptive) cannot exist. Unless you want to argue that the Paizo Design Team constantly pours through thousands of crappy filler options to check if it breaks whatever rules element they happen to be working on, which isn't exactly likely...
Well, that is the issue in question, not a settled fact. Chainsaw mindblades right out of the box is obviously not intended, and therefore the burden of proof that it MUST be allowed falls upon the munchkin. I have not yet seen it satisfied.
For pfs play, it's fortunately irrelevant, and at my table, you will bring me a beer, a good one, for even asking.
Many abilities exist that provide a character with a single mundane item or weapon without reference to cost. If every single one of those have to be weighed against the Technology Guide, because that one book is full of items that pass one test for "mundane" ("non-magical"), but fails the test that matters ("expensive and powerful"), I think the solution is obvious, don't you?
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Many abilities exist that provide a character with a single mundane item or weapon without reference to cost. If every single one of those have to be weighed against the Technology Guide, because that one book is full of items that pass one test for "mundane" ("non-magical"), but fails the test that matters ("expensive and powerful"), I think the solution is obvious, don't you?If you only allow what is "intended", then most characters that people make and play at tables (and aren't disruptive) cannot exist. Unless you want to argue that the Paizo Design Team constantly pours through thousands of crappy filler options to check if it breaks whatever rules element they happen to be working on, which isn't exactly likely...
Well, that is the issue in question, not a settled fact. Chainsaw mindblades right out of the box is obviously not intended, and therefore the burden of proof that it MUST be allowed falls upon the munchkin. I have not yet seen it satisfied.
For pfs play, it's fortunately irrelevant, and at my table, you will bring me a beer, a good one, for even asking.
The solution is to write the rules so that you can either trivially exclude or exclude by default "expensive and powerful" items when you need to.
As far as technological items go, the one thing that would be needed to remove this whole issue is a sidebar in the technology guide stating that technological items are too complex and extraordinary to be replicated or mimicked by most supernatural effects - only effects that explicitly permit technological items can do so. Then there would be no problem with mindblades, because there isn't any rule allowing technological items that permits them to Summon Chainsaws. It also means there isn't any question of intent because the intent is written in plain English in the book (isn't this a revolutionary concept?). I think the solution is obvious, don't you?
Many abilities exist that provide a character with a single mundane item or weapon without reference to cost. If every single one of those have to be weighed against the Technology Guide, because that one book is full of items that pass one test for "mundane" ("non-magical"), but fails the test that matters ("expensive and powerful"), I think the solution is obvious, don't you?If you only allow what is "intended", then most characters that people make and play at tables (and aren't disruptive) cannot exist. Unless you want to argue that the Paizo Design Team constantly pours through thousands of crappy filler options to check if it breaks whatever rules element they happen to be working on, which isn't exactly likely...
Well, that is the issue in question, not a settled fact. Chainsaw mindblades right out of the box is obviously not intended, and therefore the burden of proof that it MUST be allowed falls upon the munchkin. I have not yet seen it satisfied.
For pfs play, it's fortunately irrelevant, and at my table, you will bring me a beer, a good one, for even asking.
The solution is to write the rules so that you can either trivially exclude or exclude by default "expensive and powerful" items when you need to.
As far as technological items go, the one thing that would be needed to remove this whole issue is a sidebar in the technology guide stating that technological items are too complex and extraordinary to be replicated or mimicked by most supernatural effects - only effects that explicitly permit technological items can do so. Then there would be no problem with mindblades, because there isn't any rule allowing technological items that permits them to Summon Chainsaws. It also means there isn't any question of intent because the intent is written in plain English in the book (isn't this a revolutionary concept?). I think the solution is obvious, don't you?
I totally agree that the Technology Guide should have included that in the preface(, and the solution is to pretend that they did, as a house rule). I even just now re-read it. And damn, Paizo really needs some adult supervision on their more creative writers.
Why is this being suggested it is legal in PFS?
It wasn't everyone who's mentioned PFS has said it's not legal.
RAW it works, but:
1. It's obviously not RAI.
2. When they make stuff for the RPG-line they do not acknowledge mechanics from golarion such as technological weapons.
3. Those weapons are accessible in PFS so you cannot use them in PFS.
...Many abilities exist that provide a character with a single mundane item or weapon without reference to cost. If every single one of those have to be weighed against the Technology Guide, because that one book is full of items that pass one test for "mundane" ("non-magical"), but fails the test that matters ("expensive and powerful"), I think the solution is obvious, don't you?If you only allow what is "intended", then most characters that people make and play at tables (and aren't disruptive) cannot exist. Unless you want to argue that the Paizo Design Team constantly pours through thousands of crappy filler options to check if it breaks whatever rules element they happen to be working on, which isn't exactly likely...
Well, that is the issue in question, not a settled fact. Chainsaw mindblades right out of the box is obviously not intended, and therefore the burden of proof that it MUST be allowed falls upon the munchkin. I have not yet seen it satisfied.
For pfs play, it's fortunately irrelevant, and at my table, you will bring me a beer, a good one, for even asking.
The solution is to write the rules so that you can either trivially exclude or exclude by default "expensive and powerful" items when you need to.
As far as technological items go, the one thing that would be needed to remove this whole issue is a sidebar in the technology guide stating that technological items are too complex and extraordinary to be replicated or mimicked by most supernatural effects - only effects that explicitly permit technological items can do so. Then there would be no problem with mindblades, because there isn't any rule allowing technological items that permits them to Summon Chainsaws. It also means there isn't any question of intent because the intent is written in plain English in the book (isn't this a revolutionary concept?). I think the solution is obvious,
As we've proven in this thread any home GM with a 4th grade reading level can come to a sensible ruling for his or her game. Is it really a major concern that the ruling Sally makes in Paterson NJ, might differ from Tom's in Witchipaw NY?
Technology Guide
Equipment: None of the equipment is legal for play;
Why is this being suggested it is legal in PFS?
It appears to me strictly not legal, since there are no technology weapons in the game at all. So a mindblade can't make one.
Am I missing something?
There are certain chronicle sheets that unlock certain Technological weapons, such as these. These chronicle sheets can also be obtained at a very low level.
There are certain chronicle sheets that unlock certain Technological weapons, such as these. These chronicle sheets can also be obtained at a very low level.Technology Guide
Equipment: None of the equipment is legal for play;
Why is this being suggested it is legal in PFS?
It appears to me strictly not legal, since there are no technology weapons in the game at all. So a mindblade can't make one.
Am I missing something?
The Chronicle sheets only unlock the weapons themselves. They do not empower changes to class abilities.
I think it absolutely is RAI that a mindblade magus from Numeria who has used technological weapons, is proficient in them, and is familiar with them can certainly create one from his mind, as long as the GM allows it.
Many abilities exist that provide a character with a single mundane item or weapon without reference to cost. If every single one of those have to be weighed against the Technology Guide, because that one book is full of items that pass one test for "mundane" ("non-magical"), but fails the test that matters ("expensive and powerful"), I think the solution is obvious, don't you?
Yes, the solution is obvious. Ask your GM. In any campaign other than PFS, a GM is empowered to say, "No f$!#ing way" if a mindblade magus says he wants to use his ability to create a monowhip.
Edit: just to clarify, in PFS, the GM is required to refuse this, not just empowered to do so.
The Chronicle sheets only unlock the weapons themselves. They do not empower changes to class abilities.
There's no change to the class abilities. You're reading a restriction into the rules that doesn't exist simply because you want it to be there.
Now, are these items unreasonably powerful? Yes, that's why they are banned from PFS except in the limited situation of a character who uses those chronicles to gain access to them.
Is it intended by the coordinators of the PFSOP campaign that the mindblade be able to manifest these items if they get them on a chronicle? Unknown. I'm not sure they've thought about that. It would be a good thing to include in the Clarifications document.
Note also that, at least in the case of the Iron Gods AP chronicles, most of the powerful tech items are treated as timeworn when not being used in the sanctioned portions of the AP. This is definitely true of the few melee items that appear on the list, which are a couple chainsaws and a laser torch. There's also a null blade, but since that's a specific magic item, like a sun blade or a holy avenger, the mindblade couldn't manifest it, since there's no provisions for creating a specific magical item.
No, seriously, there is no PFS issue.
You can't use any material that is not on the whitelist. Exception: If you have a chronicle sheet allowing the use of banned material, you can use it as the chronicle sheet allows (which is usually the purchase of a single item).
