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"You never asked" is a viable statement. Not volunteering your status isn't lying. Dressing such that nobody even thinks you might be a Paladin isn't lying. Acting honorably in some cases means you don't DIShonor your comrades by deliberately provoking conflict.
Not all Paladins are Knight-In-Shining-Armor Boy Scouts, but the stereotype exists. Take advantage of that.
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Sometimes you're presented with situations where you need to choose.
Playing Bingo with evil-aligned discs, lying to Hellknights, eating soul wafers, getting tattooed with Thassilonian runes, and having to fight an Angel are all things that you may be faced with.
Know your character, and be thoughtful about what they would do in such situations. It's part of the challenge of playing a devout character.
Your GM will also warn you ahead of time whether your action would warrant an alignment infraction, or worse, so you shouldn't be surprised with a whammy out of the blue.
Contributor
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Something I always hold to whenever I'm playing a PC class that has alignment (or vow) restrictions - You are a Pathfinder first, a Paladin/Monk/Hellknight/Diplomat/etc. second.
My Vow of Truth monk tells everyone at the start of a scenario that he will not willingly lie, and so if such is required, he will simply stay back and stand guard but will not speak. That said, if the mission's success or failure were dependent on his participation in a bluff/lie, he would break his vow to help the party, and atone later.
It's a class restriction/drawback - it's supposed to be something you need to RP your way around, or potentially break for the party's benefit. If there's never a risk of you breaking a vow/restriction, it isn't much of a drawback, is it?
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I had a great explanation for what by paladin was doing in Bloodcove one time when we weren't supposed to reveal being Pathfinders. (They didn't say anything about revealing your religion) "OK, look, this is sort of embarrassing. You see, yes I am a paladin, but I really need to hire a smuggler. Here's the thing. I have these religious texts, and my god wants me to get them to Port Godless to help spread the Word. I know you guys have a certain reputation for being really good at the whole smuggling thing, so I think I have to make a deal here ..." Not exactly a lie, since I did bring religious texts with me and I had gold to hire a smuggler, but not exactly my primary purpose in town either.
I don't know, a lot of this actually sounds like a lie. It could have just as easily been "I really want to smuggle some holy literature into Port Godless." Unless of course, the GM, acting as the characters Deity is actually sending the character divine mandates, this would be a lot closer to the truth.
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I don't see how that's exactly the same. One is taking liberties with divine mandate, at best, at worst is out and out lying. The other doesn't require a lie at all.
And I merely meant to say that you're putting way to much into your explanation, needlessly complicating things. Instead of using a half-truth, you can just as easily use a whole-truth.
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The lie is where he claims he was specifically told by his god to get the holy texts Port Godless which is unlikely. If he had simply said he was a holy man with some holy texts, and wanted the smugglers help getting them to Port Godless because he wants to spread word of his faith it probably would have all been true.
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Something I always hold to whenever I'm playing a PC class that has alignment (or vow) restrictions - You are a Pathfinder first, a Paladin/Monk/Hellknight/Diplomat/etc. second.
I totally disagree. A Paladin or Cleric would put their faith before being a Pathfinder. Their beliefs and vows make up the core of who they are. Being A Pathfinder is basically just a job. I've met some very devout people before, and they would never put their jobs before their faith.
For the purpose of the game I think that if a player finds themselves in this situation they should talk it out with the group, and try to satisfy both obligations.
But if a player violated a class vow/restriction or their alignment in some way just because some VC told them to as a GM I would warn them that said actions might lead them in a direction that causes an alignment infraction. To be clear I don't think the OP's case where the character needed to remain anonymous/hide a holy symbol in any way qualifies as an infraction, but lets face it Zarta, Guaril, Torch, Maldris any of these people could easily ask a divine character with come kind of class/alignment restriction to violate their code. However, while there may be scenarios where this is an issue, I don't know of any where they do(since I doubt the campaign staff wants to put people in a position where the choice is break your code or don't participate in the mission.)
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Something I always hold to whenever I'm playing a PC class that has alignment (or vow) restrictions - You are a Pathfinder first, a Paladin/Monk/Hellknight/Diplomat/etc. second.I totally disagree. A Paladin or Cleric would put their faith before being a Pathfinder. Their beliefs and vows make up the core of who they are. Being A Pathfinder is basically just a job. I've met some very devout people before, and they would never put their jobs before their faith.
That said, I feel like any player who creates a character with vows should ask themselves "How does being a pathfinder further my vows." It will make it a lot easier for the character skirting the border of his vow if he believes succeeding in the pathfinders will bring him closer to fulfilling the heart of it.
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Absolutely. This a role playing game. Abiding by your vow is meaningless if it means you can't participate in the game. Like I said they should always work to fulfill both obligations, and I'm sure there is a way to do that in every scenario. Though certain scenarios do present you with situations where you have to play up your code I don't think they prevent you from participating in or completing your goals as a Pathfinder.
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Thats the exact same thing. You're quibbling.
Precisely. The player made a good faith effort to role play both his class limitations and remain true to the scenario and the intent. No need to be overly critical or parse his words to the nth degree. Let the diplomacy check indicate how successful he was and move on. The game is supposed to be fun and entertaining and his description certainly beats the hell out of [paladin] "I'll be over here being distracted by unimpressive architecture while you torture that prisoner for information." Be an encouraging GM not a negative nancy.
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undetectable alignment is on the paladin spell list.
Paladins often have to conceal themselves in some way and doing so does not violate their code. I had my PFS paladin (R.I.P. Xan) in Nidal seduce an NPC in order to avoid a combat (thus saving many lives). I did not tell her I was a paladin: "my friends and I are mercenaries, just put in to port..."
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While my two Paladins have never been in a single scenario where they had no choice but to fall (the significantly less-righteous of them fell willingly to gain the powers of a cursed magic item, but that's a story for another day), it is possible to be put into a situation where your Paladin is going to need to choose between his class and his companions.
In that situation, I choose to pay for an atonement. It's one of the concessions I make when choosing to play a character devoted to Lawful Good in the employ of a Neutral organization which is willing to send its operatives to break the law.
