How to Dual Wield Double Barrel Pistols?

[Mr. Microscope]

Hello All,

I have a PFS Swashbuckler/Bard build and he's all about flavor (nautical theme - sings sea shanties/dirty limericks etc.).

I spent my first two feats to be able to use a double barrel pistol (it's usually my first action after which I drop it and switch to the rapier, so I'm not concerned with reloading).

I just leveled up and can choose an extra feat and have the money to get a second double barrel pistol. I'd love to spend my first move rolling four d20's against touch AC even at severe minuses (again, just for fun and flavor).

What feat should I choose to do this and how will it effect the rolls? I was thinking Two Weapon Fighting seemed the most logical. It looks to me that I could fire all four barrels at -8 each. -4 for TWF and -4 for firing both barrels on each gun. Correct? Is this the way to go about it?

Thoughts? Thank you in advance!

[Jeff Merola]

Incorrect. The Double-Barreled Pistol was changed a while ago to be a standard action to fire both barrels. As a result it can't be combined with any form of full attacking, including TWF.

Source.

[Mr. Microscope]

The source doesn't elaborate what the errata is that was mentioned. Also, aren't most attacks (like with a sword, etc.) a standard attack? What's the difference?

The TWF feat doesn't seem to mention standard attack vs. full attack or anything of the like.

[Jeff Merola]

Here's the relevant text (as per the FAQ, just swap in pistol for musket):

Quote:

This musket has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be shot independently as separate attacks, or both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action). If both barrels are fired at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the gun becomes wildly inaccurate, taking a –4 penalty on each shot. Each barrel of a double-barreled musket uses either a bullet and a single dose of black powder or an alchemical cartridge as ammunition.

The difference here is that because it's specifically called out as a standard action it cannot be used in a full attack. Most attacks (like your sword example) don't have a specifically defined action that is separate from the usual, they just can be used with an Attack action (standard) or as part of a Full attack. Two-weapon Fighting requires a full attack, so you can't fire both barrels as part of it.

[Mr. Microscope]

But isn't a standard action shorter than a full round attack? It stands to reason that two standards would fit in a full. Also, I don't see any words about full attack in the SRD description of TWF.

[Mr. Microscope]

BTW, thank you for helping me here.

[Renata Maclean]

Two standards do not fit in a full round. This is why you can't attack more than once in a turn with a single weapon unless you have iterative attacks or something similar

[Jeff Merola]

It's in the description for Full Attack:

Quote:

Full Attack

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

Also, the errata to make shooting both barrels a standard was specifically put in place to stop the optimized form of what you're trying to do.

[BadBird]

You could use the Rapid Shot feat to fire-off a bonus barrel while making a full attack - this actually improves accuracy for the pistol shots, though it reduces other attacks. Once you have Allegro or Haste, you can unload two double-barrel pistols in one full-attack - mainhand 1/ offhand 1/ rapid shot offhand 2/ haste attack mainhand 2.

[lemeres]

Mr. Microscope wrote:

But isn't a standard action shorter than a full round attack? It stands to reason that two standards would fit in a full. Also, I don't see any words about full attack in the SRD description of TWF.

They turned it into a charge or vital strike kind of thing, basically.

Still a rather good deal. Archers and TWFers tend to do poor damage when they ahve to move. With this, you still get two shots out.

I wouldn't bother with more than one double pistol though because of this.

[Mr. Microscope]

Well, darn. Thank you to everyone for contributing to this thread. Looks like I'll be saving some gold and not rolling four d20's any time soon. I guess I'll spend the feat on Fencing Grace instead.