Barbarian UMD

[x x 342]

I am posting this for feedback. I'm going to lay out a case for a game mechanic that I wish to play. Ultimately the decision will be up to the GM at the table. But I am posting it to see if and how other players would "poke holes".

Background: In PFS I am playing a Barbarian with UMD. The original intended game mechanic was/is to activate wands that he (a male character) has purchased. It is assumed that because the wands are purchased the command word is known so no property identification is needed. Under the UMD RAW if he rolls a 1 on a UMD check to activate one of these items he has failed so badly that he can't activate that wand that game day.

I want him to be able to activate wands and other magic items found during the adventure. In order for him to do a UMD check to attempt to activate such items "someone" has to identify the wand and determine the wand's function and command word. If another character can identify the wand, all good and I move on to the activate attempt.

But what if he is left on his own to identify the item? He can cheaply buy a potion or scroll (or several of each - they're cheap) of Identify. But can he and, if so, how can he use these potions or scrolls?

The potion game mechanics RAW say the target of the potion is the imbiber. But the RAW for Identify is not explicit about what the "target" is. If he drinks an Identify potion has he imbued himself with the ability to Detect Magic to identify properties at +10? If yes, all good and this is one way for him to attempt to identify a found item.

What about a scroll of Identify? In PFS, magic items can be bought between scenarios with "lots of time" to do "whatever" with them. For example if a Ranger or Paladin buys a scroll it is assumed that they have plenty of time to take Read Magic on a non-scenario game day to decipher the scroll. The UMD Try Again RAW described a "penalty" for Activation but not Decipher. Can it be assumed that a PFS character using UMD to Decipher has plenty of time before the scenario and will "eventually" get that scroll deciphered?

Assuming the scroll is deciphered, on to Activation. My Barbarian will have to both Emulate an Ability and Use the Identify scroll with UMD. Is there a chance for a Mishap? I think not because the mechanics for UMD scroll activation are sufficiently different from the mechanics for activation by a true caster that it appears to me that Mishap is not "in play". But this is another place for you folks to "poke holes". Will a roll of 1 to Emulate an Ability fail that scroll for the game day? Again I think not because the UMD Try Again restriction is RAW to only deal with item activation. Is another roll to Emulate an Ability required for every roll to Use the Scroll? I think not because the UMD RAW describes Emulation actions to only be needed to repeat once per hour. I agree that once the ability is emulated a 1 rolled on the subsequent Use the Scroll attempt makes that scroll unusable by that character for the rest of the game day. But, if all is good so far AND he has plenty of those 25gp Identify scrolls, my Barbarian will "eventually" Emulate an Ability and Use a Scroll of Identify to ATTEMPT to identify a found item. Of course at that point his Spellcraft roll may fail and it will be "back to square one". And, oh yeah, he will need a rank in Spellcraft since Untrained characters can't attempt Spellcraft Tasks.

There you have it. Hopefully I didn't lose too many of you to TLDR.

[Claxon]

Unless you have a high charisma or spend a trait to make UMD a class skill, this isn't going to be useful investment.

You need a minimum of a 20 to activate a wand you can't take 10 with it.

At level 12 assuming you don't have a positive charisma modifier or have UMD as a class skill via trait you only have a 60% chance of success.

Every level below that decreases the chance of success by 5%.

Scrolls are even harder than wands to activate.

The end result is you will probably not be able to activate the item on the first try and there is a good chance someone else will be able to do it, and your chance of success is really low until moderate levels.

[x x 342]

Claxon wrote:

Unless you have a high charisma or spend a trait to make UMD a class skill, this isn't going to be useful investment.

You need a minimum of a 20 to activate a wand you can't take 10 with it.

At level 12 assuming you don't have a positive charisma modifier or have UMD as a class skill via trait you only have a 60% chance of success.

Every level below that decreases the chance of success by 5%.

Scrolls are even harder than wands to activate.

The end result is you will probably not be able to activate the item on the first try and there is a good chance someone else will be able to do it, and your chance of success is really low until moderate levels.

Agree that my character "will probably not be able to activate the item on the first try" and "chance of success is really low". And in instances where "someone else will be able to do it", my character wouldn't need to try. But there are rare instances in PFS play where the party composition is such that are no characters who have any Spellcraft. The point of my post with its numerous questions is to get opinions about whether it is legitimately within the RAW AT ALL.

[dragonhunterq]

PRD - potions wrote:

It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects.

I think 'potions of identify' is a non-starter as identify doesn't target (nor does detect magic).

I would agree with you that there is no penalty to decipher a scroll or emulate an ability score.

I think you do need to emulate the ability score on each scroll, as I don't think you can call it 'an ongoing manner'. That seems more like applying to utilising continuous use items.

[Dragonchess Player]

x x 342 wrote:

Background: In PFS I am playing a Barbarian with UMD. The original intended game mechanic was/is to activate wands that he (a male character) has purchased. It is assumed that because the wands are purchased the command word is known so no property identification is needed.

Wands are not "command word" items; they are spell trigger items. Command word items can be activated by anyone that knows the activation word/phrase without a Use Magic Device check; spell trigger items require that the spell is on (at least one of) the character's spell list(s) or a successful DC 20 Use Magic Device check.

Note, a half-elf barbarian with the Arcane Training alternate racial trait is treated as if having one level in a single arcane class (such as bard or witch) for the purpose of activating wands. This allows them to use wands of cure light wounds (on the bard and witch spell lists), etc. without Use Magic Device checks.

x x 342 wrote:

I want him to be able to activate wands and other magic items found during the adventure. In order for him to do a UMD check to attempt to activate such items "someone" has to identify the wand and determine the wand's function and command word. If another character can identify the wand, all good and I move on to the activate attempt.

The identify spell is not required to determine the properties of a magic item; it just makes it easier. Detect magic (either with the Magical Talent trait or Arcane Talent feat for the half-elf barbarian) and Spellcraft (DC 15 + item's caster level) are all that are needed.

[kinevon]

Along with the normal DC of 20 on UMD for using a wand, you can, on unknown wands, attempt a UMD check at DC 25, for "activating blindly". Of course, target, and whether you notice what effect it causes is a different subject.

Potions of Identify are unlikely, as a previous poster pointed out, especially in PFS.

Scrolls of Identify are CL1, only last 3 rounds, require an Int or Cha of 11 to use, and have a DC of 21 to use, after a DC 26 decipher roll, at some point. If purchased, that DC 26 roll would be waived, but the DC for a scroll is, usually, harder than a wand. You could, of course, get a wand of Identify, if you so desired, and get the DC 20 to activate it.

If you are playing in Standard with this PC, and you own the ACG, you might consider buying a Wand Key Ring for your most-used wand spell or spells, at 3,000 gp apiece.

[Uktar]

Pardon the threadomancy, but to the OP:
If this is something you really want to do, since it's PFS, use 2 prestige points to buy a Wand of Identify. UMD check of 20 to use it. But you'll need to also be investing Skill Points into Spellcraft for it to work, since Identify merely provides a +10 on spellcraft, doesn't auto-ID object.

Also, there's a Basic-Magic trait that makes UMD a class skill (and provides +1) so that ups UMD+4 (Dangerously Curious). Take ADDITIONAL TRAITS feat to gain it.

But I'd recommend BLOODRAGER class from ACG. Barbarians that cast spells. Can use any wand on bloodrager list automatically. Charisma based caster so it'll help UMD. They _are_ wand-using barbarians. If you have prestige and gold you can retrain into it--look up RETRAINING rules. Could retrain just one level of Barbarian, or all of them. (Cost is 5 prestige points, and 50gpxchar level, PER LEVEL to be retrained...assuming synergy between Barbarian and Bloodrager)

[Cevah]

The Cloak of the Hedge Wizard, Divination school at 2500 gp gives at will Detect Magic.

The feat Artifact Hunter is nice:

Spoiler:

You seek an artifact—either a specific one or merely any item of legendary prowess—with dogged tenacity.

Prerequisites: You must have come within sight of a legendary artifact at some point in your past.

Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Use Magic Device checks when emulating a class feature, ability score, race, or alignment. If you have 10 or more ranks in Use Magic Device, this bonus increases to +4. In addition, once per day, instead of attempting a Use Magic Device check normally, you can choose to determine the result as if you had rolled a 15. If you have 10 or more ranks in Use Magic Device, you can use this ability twice per day.

Goal: Claim ownership of an artifact.

Completion Benefit: You learn how to coax the most out of your magic items. Three times per day when you activate a use-activated or command word magic item, you can increase the item’s effective caster level by +2 as a free action. You can use this ability once per round.

The feat Divine Deception is good for divine stuff:

Spoiler:

You are skilled at manipulating divine magical items.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks, Use Magic Device 5 ranks.

Benefit: You gain a +5 bonus on Use Magic Device checks to use divine spell-trigger or spell completion items or to emulate a divine class feature.

The feat Magical Aptitude is a simple bonus to the skill:

Spoiler:

You are skilled at spellcasting and using magic items.

Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Spellcraft checks and Use Magic Device checks. If you have 10 or more ranks in one of these skills, the bonus increases to +4 for that skill.

The nice thing about Artifact Hunter is the daily Take 15.

/cevah

[Devilkiller]

On a somewhat related note, can a Barbarian use a wand while raging? If not then can a Bloodrager do so? I have a PC with a few levels of Bloodrager and lots of wands, so this will probably come up for me at some point. My assumption is that the answer is "no", but maybe it doesn't hurt to ask.

[Rysky]

Hmm good question, they can't use UMD while raging so Barbarian is out, but it does become a question for Bloodragers using wands that they don't have to use UMD for, i.e. their own spell lists.

I'd allow it.

[Cevah]

SRD

Bloodrage wrote:

While bloodraging, a bloodrager cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.

SRD

Activate Magic Item wrote:

Spell Trigger, Command Word, or Use-Activated Items

Activating any of these kinds of items does not require concentration and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Looks like wands of in-list spells are OK. [Otherwise he would need UMD, a Charisma based skill.]

/cevah

[Devilkiller]

Ok, it is good to know that. It makes me feel a little better about having Bloodrager levels on a PC with a 5 Charisma. He's also a Hellknight, so Barbarian wasn't a viable way of embracing Hell's Fury.