Maneuver Build Comparison

[miscdebris]

Both are anti-hero. I'm starting at either 11 (as a replacement) or a new character for a new campaign (Skull and Shackles or RotRL).

Both are maneuver and debuff focused (we have a big party, others can do the damage), with damage dealing when I get around to it, and use a bow if we must.

Both use these stat arrays:
40: 14, 18+2, 14, 14, 16, 8 (current campaign)
30: 14, 16+2, 14, 14, 14, 10 (maybe new campaign)
25: 12, 16+2, 14, 14, 14, 8 (maybe new campaign)
20: 10, 16+2, 14, 12, 14, 8 (maybe new campaign)

Human Dex Lore Warden Fighter Maneuver Master Monk Lasher:

Traits: Reactionary, Fate's Favored, Adopted (Caravan Drover), Carefully Hidden, Paranoid, Vagabond Child (Sleight of Hand)
1: Fighter 1 - Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Agile Maneuvers, Combat Stamina, Dirty Fighting
2: Monk 1 - Improved Trip
3: Fighter 2 - Weapon Focus (Whip), Combat Expertise, Whip Mastery
4: Monk 2 - Improved Dirty Trick
5: Fighter 3 - Improved Whip Mastery
6: Fighter 4 - Barroom Brawler
7: Fighter 5 - Greater Trip
8: Fighter 6 - Phalanx Formation
9: Fighter 7 - Quick Dirty Trick
10: Fighter 8 - Greater Dirty Trick
11: Fighter 9 - Dirty Trick Master
12: Fighter 10 - Power Attack
13: Fighter 11 - Dazing Assault
14: Fighter 12 - x
15: Fighter 13 - x, AWT (Armed Bravery or Focused Weapon)
16: Fighter 14 - x
17: Fighter 15 - x
18: Fighter 16 - x
19: Fighter 17 - x, AWT (?)
20: Fighter 18 - x

Advantages: good skill points, especially for a fighter, great CMD to wrangle tumbling punks., very accurate and high CMBs, good saves, and ACs, a little simpler than the warpriest
Disadvantages: no spells

Favored class to skill points, we use retraining, so I can buy HPs.

This might include Martial Master, and drop Abundant Tactics and Barroom Brawler

Half-elf Dex Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest Maneuver Master Monk Lasher:

Racial Traits: Ancestral Weapons, Fey Thoughts
Traits: Reactionary, Fate's Favored, Carefully Hidden, Magical Knack
1: Warpriest 1 - Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers, Weapon Focus (Whip)
2: Warpriest 2 -
3: Warpriest 3 - Combat Reflexes, Whip Mastery
4: Monk 1 - Improved Trip
5: Monk 2 - Dirty Fighting, Imp Dirty Trick
6: Warpriest 4 -
7: Warpriest 5 - Improved Whip Mastery
8: Warpriest 6 - Barroom Brawler, Greater Trip
9: Warpriest 7 - Quick Dirty Trick
10: Warpriest 8 -
11: Warpriest 9 - Combat Stamina, Phalanx Formation, AWT (Abundant Tactics)
12: Warpriest 10 -
13: Warpriest 11 - Greater Dirty Trick
14: Warpriest 12 - Power Attack, Dirty Trick Master
15: Warpriest 13 - Dazing Assault, AWT (Versatile Training or Focused Weapon)
16: Warpriest 14 -
17: Warpriest 15 - Divine Interference, x
18: Warpriest 16 -
19: Warpriest 17 - X, AWT
20: Warpriest 18 - X, X

Advantages: Very accurate and high CMBs, good saves, and ACs, Spells (paragon surge to pick up feats when needed along with Barroom Brawler), better damage, free weapon enhancements via Sacred Weapon
Disadvantages: Lower skill points, lower CMD, comes together later, a little more complicated than the fighter

Favored class to bonus feats, we use retraining, so I can buy HPs.

Thoughts on how to improve them, advanced them, and which is better?

The people I play with are moderate optimizers. I like to optimize, so I pick things that are less strong and go nuts on them (I have a near dedicated healer Life Oracle, currently).

[Castilonium]

For the half elf warpriest, you don't need to take Ancestral Arms. Warpriests gain the weapon proficiency of their deity's favored weapon, so worship Matravash, a LN god. Trade out Ancestral Arms for Dual Minded or Eye for Opportunity.

[miscdebris]

That's picked for RP reasons. I won't be anywhere near the Matra River, of which Matravash is god of. I would pick up whip proficiency via Adopted (Caravan Drover) as well, like I did with fighter.

[miscdebris]

Bump Anyone?

[666bender]

Make sure the fighter is lore warden,
It stacks great, super cmb.

[miscdebris]

The fighter is indeed a lore warden. In the end, the fighter and warpriest have the same (or very close) cmb, while the CMD is quite a bit different.

Bump, anyone else have anything on how to improve them, or which might be better in actual play?

[666bender]

fighter will have A lot more maneuvers.
also, favorite class bonus is adding CMD to 2 maneuvers, i took trip and grapple.
i had super high grapple CMB, AND IF i closed my hands i move action pinned. there was no way to ever get out.
as a fighter, i had, at level 15 :
greater dirty tricks
greater trip
greater grapple
dazing assault
enforcer
a cruel weapon
1-2 crit feats.

i added so many effects the foe, with full hp did not know he lost....

[logan grayble]

My favorite maneuver focused build is a Duergar monk with the Gray Disciple archetype. At level 15, your Bullrush and Reposition maneuvers become Reflex save or die.

[miscdebris]

666bender wrote:

fighter will have A lot more maneuvers.

also, favorite class bonus is adding CMD to 2 maneuvers, i took trip and grapple.
i had super high grapple CMB, AND IF i closed my hands i move action pinned. there was no way to ever get out.
as a fighter, i had, at level 15 :
greater dirty tricks
greater trip
greater grapple
dazing assault
enforcer
a cruel weapon
1-2 crit feats.

i added so many effects the foe, with full hp did not know he lost....

I had grapple in there, and I am torn between Intimidate and Grapple with a whip. This seems like it might be better with Martial Flexibility because I get things earlier.

Think I can squeeze all that in with the 4 needed whip feats?

logan grayble wrote:

My favorite maneuver focused build is a Duergar monk with the Gray Disciple archetype. At level 15, your Bullrush and Reposition maneuvers become Reflex save or die.

That's pretty sexy. :)